Your Opinion - What % is the Greek component of modern Greeks?

[Soldier of Macedon]

SOM, the difference here is that the Arvanties self identify this way.

We could probably look deeper into the reasons for this and how long they have considered themselves different to the rest of their kin, but they weren't native Greek-speakers, thus they cannot be considered as ethnic Greeks at the time of independence.

.....I couldnt care less if a fustanella was Albanian origin. At the end of the day its a garment that hardly can be copyrighted. You can go back to Antiquity and find men with a garment wrapped around their waists.

Of course you can, but you will not find them in that exact fashion, so I don't think there is a need for ambiguity here when the point is specific and clear.

I live here and we have Albanians talking openly and not shying away from who they are.

That is because they're known to be immigrants. I doubt there would be the same neutrality from Greeks if it was one of their own Arvanite citizens talking to Albanians from Albania in their own language.

Same thing applies to Turks, only if you ask them the ethnic composition of the likes of Sinan, Mehment or Ataturk. Most times they will just say they were Turks.

Yes, I suppose, but then again, Sinan, Mehmet and Ataturk all knew how to speak Turkish, whereas Kondouriotes and several of his kinsmen did not know a word of Greek. Quite a significant fact I would think, given the emphasis on the Greek language where it concerns Greek nationalism.

If 200 years from now Albanians, Vlachs adopt Macedonian language, religion name their kids Macedonian names. Celebrate traditions and fight your battles. Will you tell them at the end of the day they are not Macedonian ?

That is an issue of identities, like you say, but that was not the purpose of the thread (as I indicated on the first post). Anyway, to answer your question, it has been over 100 years since the Ilinden Uprising and nobody in Macedonia hides the fact that Pitu Guli was a Vlach. Of course his people are Macedonian nationals also, but they're allowed to have media, education, etc in their own language.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Great topic. I have a book by Nicholas Ostler called Empires of the Word which deals extensively with the rise and fall of the Greek language. He talks about how in many instances the language was perpetuated by non Greeks and states that Alexander the Great was one such example.

We are in the middle of moving at the moment, but, if I can find the book I will post some excerpts.

El Bre, did you manage to find the book?

[Big Chukalo]

Yes, I will scan the relevant passages.

[Soldier of Macedon]

El Bre, have you changed your username to Big Chukalo?

[George S.]

Voltron what onur is telling you are more turkish than greek.There's not much chance at being greek you miss out at the stakes.Due to the mass migrations in the 1820's there is more chance of picking up a turk who thinks he's greek or the fact that it's a vlach or an albanian.Lets face it you had a few albanian presidents over the years.I have to agree that the figure of 3% greek must be right.Next time you meet some greeks ask them what their surname is & where they coame from & you'll get your answer.

[Makedonska_Kafana]

About, 75% are NEW Greeks after 1912 but you can't rely on any census - all lie

- On July 11, 1942, the Jews of Thessaloniki were rounded up in preparation for slave labour. The community paid a fee of 2.5 billion drachmas for their freedom, the effect of which was only to delay deportation until the following March. 46,091 people were sent to Auschwitz.

[George S.]

i think the sensus of 3 % could be right for the real greeks.Do a test & ask your greek friends what their name is & where they are from.Their surname will tell you that they aren't greek.I was amazed that hardly any genuine greeks are around.Your right mk hardly any greek census would be right.

[Big Chukalo]

El Bre, have you changed your username to Big Chukalo?

Not by choice, SoM. I'll send you a PM

[Pelister]

I believe that there has never been a historical community anywhere on the ground that could be called distinctively 'Greek'. I havn't found any 'ethnic Greeks' yet. There are countless references to contemporary Greeks, and there are many of them that equate contemporary Greeks with the ancient Greeks, and continue to push the myth, even though often in most cases they are clearly referring to Albanians, Turks and others. There is no evidence of an distinctive 'ethnic Greek' per se.

[Valmir]

Its hard to find ancient greeks in Greece, 90% of the Athenians are Arvanites (Albanians) but most of them have been assimilated in Greeks because they was Ortodox.

[George S.]

you could ask what greeks there are or if you meet someone do the test ask what their name is & where their family is from you'll see that they aren't greek.Remember how the greeks were continually embarrased that Greeks in the greek navy spoke in albanian.

[Commander Bond]

Bump - This is such a good topic.

[George S.]

Valmir the greeks had better be ready to kiss some albanian arse as pretty soon you'll take them over.

[EgejskaMakedonia]

Valmir the greeks had better be ready to kiss some albanian arse as pretty soon you'll take them over.

At this rate Macedonians should be preparing first...the sad thing is it's evident that Macedonia has been preparing for over a decade and the arse kissing has subsequently been taking place for quite a while now.

[George S.]

EM i suppose you are right we have been doing it for a while.That's not to say the greeks are immune their turn will come.