Your Opinion - What % is the Greek component of modern Greeks?

[Voltron]

Which traditions that you practice today are the same ones as the ones practised by the various tribes living in the Ancient City states?
Please give us some examples.

Anarchy for one.

Daskalot, you want me to skip 2 millenia straight to the City States ?

[makedonin]

What you describe is something different. I wouldnt say its assimilation just because they have a Macedonian song they claim their own. Like thats a first in the Balkans.

No, it is exactly that what it is. Those people in the Video you call Greeks, think of them as if they have some uninterrupted Greek continuity from Ancient times, but are in reality assimilated Macedonians who actually did not abandon their culture and customs, but just slightly modified them and renamed it as Greek. So the assimilation is restricted to slight modification and renaming of cultural traits. Racial substratum remains different and customs are also different of what was originally thought to be genuine Greek.

Exactly this is what happened with all other groups that you claim being assimilated by the Greeks, including those Slavs form the previous posts.

So, can those assimilated Groups actually claim uninterrupted continuity of Greek culture from antiquity?

No they can't, because it is obvious that they have preserved their old customs, only slightly modifying them and renaming them in Greek.

But those customs does not have anything to do with the ancient Greeks at all or about anything that was considered as genuine Greek at first place...

[Daskalot]

Anarchy for one.

Daskalot, you want me to skip 2 millenia straight to the City States ?

Why not, so Anarchy is one. Ok, will you now claim democracy as well and homosexuality?

[Voltron]

No its ok Daskalot. Wouldnt want to make some ppl jealous by claiming homosexuality. Seriously, how do you expect somebody to answer a question like that ? The Greek Orthodox religion is based on paganism worship and practices. Espescially towards patron saints. Its not something specific, although Il try respond to your request.

[Daskalot]

No its ok Daskalot. Wouldnt want to make some ppl jealous by claiming homosexuality. Seriously, how do you expect somebody to answer a question like that ? The Greek Orthodox religion is based on paganism worship and practices. Espescially towards patron saints. Its not something specific, although Il try respond to your request.

Patron saints are not something unique to the Orthodox rite, it is also practised by Catholics all over the world, are they also Greeks by tradition?

[Voltron]

[QUOTE]

No, it is exactly that what it is. Those people in the Video you call Greeks, think of them as if they have some uninterrupted Greek continuity from Ancient times, but are in reality assimilated Macedonians who actually did not abandon their culture and customs, but just slightly modified them and renamed it as Greek. So the assimilation is restricted to slight modification and renaming of cultural traits. Racial substratum remains different and customs are also different of what was originally thought to be genuine Greek.

Now how do you know they are assimilated and not Greeks ?
Once a person is assimilated, they abandon their customs adopting new ones. What you are presenting is the exact opposite. Retaining their customs but labeling Greek. This is not assimilation. I posted a definition of the word.

Exactly this is what happened with all other groups that you claim being assimilated by the Greeks, including those Slavs form the previous posts.

No, its not for the reason I posted above.

So, can those assimilated Groups actually claim uninterrupted continuity of Greek culture from antiquity?

Again, we are talking about the completed extermination of Greeks as we know them. I do not believe this is the case at all. There is nothing to prove this has happened. As a result, yes the claim to uninterrupted continuity is valid.

But those customs does not have anything to do with the ancient Greeks at all or about anything that was considered as genuine Greek at first place...

Like I said to Daskalot, A couple millenia has passed. Surely you dont expect us to be the exact copies of Greeks in Antiquity.

BTW - that link you posted. In all fairness, its not exactly the most objective one I came across. Negros in Greece ? lol.

Anyway, if you can point me to the book you mentioned. Id appreciate it.

[Voltron]

Patron saints are not something unique to the Orthodox rite, it is also practised by Catholics all over the world, are they also Greeks by tradition?

Not to the extent it is in the Orthodox world. Dont you practice Slava ? isnt that a remnant of a past tradition ?

[Daskalot]

Not to the extent it is in the Orthodox world. Dont you practice Slava ? isnt that a remnant of a past tradition ?

Slava you say, isnt that the tradition which was used by the Serbs to claim Macedonians as Serbs?
Do you know?

[Voltron]

Slava you say, isnt that the tradition which was used by the Serbs to claim Macedonians as Serbs?
Do you know?

I am vaguely famliar with the historical aspect of Slava. I know that Serbs also celebrate it. What I do not know is to what extent Macedonians celebrate it, although I heard that you do. I also know it is in regards to revering a family saint. Thats it.

[makedonin]

Now how do you know they are assimilated and not Greeks ?

Because all that they do betrays them that they are not Greeks but wannabe Greeks of Grkoman kind.

Once a person is assimilated, they abandon their customs adopting new ones. What you are presenting is the exact opposite. Retaining their customs but labeling Greek. This is not assimilation. I posted a definition of the word.

There is no reason to assume that any of those who you claim being assimilated committed a psychological suicide and forgot everything that they were before just to adopt the so called Greek culture.


After all the second human nature is the habit, and tradition, customs are habits that are rooted in how group of people lives it's everyday life.

Therefore the way you present assimilation is not possible and can never be a clear cut as you would really like it to be.

[Voltron]

[QUOTE]

Because all that they do betrays them that they are not Greeks but wannabe Greeks of Grkoman kind.

There is no reason to assume that any of those who you claim being assimilated committed a psychological suicide and forgot everything that they were before just to adopt the so called Greek culture.

Therefore the way you present assimilation is not possible and can never be a clear cut as you would really like it to be

I can tell you for a fact that in America this is exactly what happens. My own brothers are proof. They dont know when their names days are and are probably oblivous to the fact that there is a dispute going on between our countries. They are first generation too. So this type of assimilation that I mentioned is very much real. What your mentioning is more of an identity crisis.

[TrueMacedonian]

Orfej said:

What was the main force behind the attempts of Hellenization of Macedonia in the 19th century? It was the HELLENIZED VLACHS. What was the other main force? It was the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople which official language was Greek. 10 centuries before the same thing happened, Hellenized population with the help of the Byzantine/Orthodox Church tried to Hellenize the colonists.

Orfej, how could a population be hellenized 10 centuries ago when there was no hellenes to offer such a fictional campaign?

Furthermore the term Hellene itself 10 centuries ago meant pagan. I highly doubt that these Christian Romans would have had a hellenization policy running considering how Roman they felt.

This line of thinking is part of the old Macedonian myth that in 1767 the Turks abolished the Ohrid Archbishopric and handed it off to the "greek patriarchate in constantinople" and thus another bout of "hellenization". No such thing ever occurred. The Patriarchate was not an entity for some nationalization program until much later in the nineteenth century. And even this is quite questionable considering Bavarian King Otto was the head of a seperate grk orthodox church in Athens.

So when was there some real hellenization program installed in Macedonia? Definitely way after the Great Powers won the grks there own independent country.

[TrueMacedonian]

This topic seems to arise frequently, but often on urelated threads. Let's see some opinions on where we all stand with regard to the matter of the Greek component in today's Greeks. I am being specific about this which is why I use the term 'native' Greek-speakers. This is not a discussion about identity, so I don't want to see irrelevant counter-arguments which talk about identities during Ottoman times, because in Macedonia, we had certain groups of people identifying as Greeks, Bulgars and Serbs yet the overwhelming majority of them spoke Macedonian as a native tongue. This is what I am looking for.


My opinion is as follows. I believe that the number of native Greek-speakers was actually significantly increased during the Ottoman Empire due to the cosy relations between the Porte and Patriarchate. At the time of modern Greece's creation, I would say that probably about 20-30% of the population (in the new state) were native Greek-speakers, while the rest were made up by Albanian, Vlach, Turkish, Roma and Slavic-speaking groups. The further south one went, in addition to certain coastal areas, the higher number of Greeks.

Of course this is just my opinion and I am positive that others will have different views. I am happy to provide supportive evidence for the above, although I am confident that most of it can be found on the forum using the search function at the top of the page.

I don't believe that the Greeks were completely wiped out as a people during Roman and Ottoman times. But, as a group of people that spoke Greek natively (and not because that was the official tongue of state, education and/or religion), I believe they were in a minority when compared to most others in the Balkans.

I don't think we'll ever be able to know. In my opinion I doubt that anyone in their country right now has even a 3% chance at claiming such a thing.

[Voltron]

Hello TM, how is it going ?

I don't think we'll ever be able to know. In my opinion I doubt that anyone in their country right now has even a 3% chance at claiming such a thing.

^ Well, that puts you in a very precarious position doesnt it ?

[TrueMacedonian]

Hello TM, how is it going ?



^ Well, that puts you in a very precarious position doesnt it ?

What's the precarious position?