The Real Ethnic Composition of Modern Greece

[Pelister]

Behind all of this is the myth of cultural and historical homogeneity.

There may be a nation of Greeks today, but explore their roots, which is the whole point of this topic, and you will find that they do not share a common culture, they do not share a common language, or even a common history.

This topic is about the HISTORICAL ROOTS of modern Greeks. Who are they really?

The more evidence we have of this, the better.

[Makedonia]

Is he an ethnic Californian or an ethnic American?
If he wants to be an ethnic Californian, he will attempt to secede from the USA and insist on no longer being called an American.

How does this help you?

Yes, he can attempt to secede, but has to be willing to accept the consequences if his secession attempts fail and not play the victim when he gets his arse kicked.

Understand?

[Risto the Great]

Yes, he can attempt to secede, but has to be willing to accept the consequences if his secession attempts fail and not play the victim when he gets his arse kicked.

Understand?

So if I apply this analogy to the people you describe as Macedonians in Northern Greece, you would say that they should not play the victim when they get their arses kicked by the Southern Greeks??? In other words, the majority Macedonians you described in an earlier post who represent the majority in the region are willing to separately self identify as Macedonians instead of as Greeks.

I am merely trying to understand the dribble you have posted earlier.

If this is the case, I am willing to help your troubled friends in Makedonia. Tell them to call me, I have a plan.

[Soldier of Macedon]

There is a difference between a regional Macedonian and an ethnic Macedonian. Most regional Macedonians in Greece, this so-called group of "2.5 million", are imported Christians from Asia that arrived on European soil about 80 years ago. This is a fact.

An ethnic Macedonian has but one native and ancestral home, and it is not in Asia. Macedonia is their land, their culture, their language, their heritage. This truth cannot be denied.

The Greek state and its politicians live in a fairytale full of falsities which will not last forevever.

[toothpaste]

It's stupid for anyone to claim ethnic purity in the Balcans..
that goes for both Greeks and Macedonians.

[Soldier of Macedon]

It's stupid for anyone to claim ethnic purity in the Balcans..
that goes for both Greeks and Macedonians.

Very true, as it is equally stupid for one Balkan nation (Gr) to deny another's (Mk) right to self-determination based on this sort of stupidity.

[toothpaste]

I think both of them want a copyright of a long lost ancient nation...

[Soldier of Macedon]

I don't think so. What relevance has that comment to do with the topic at hand anyway? How does it get from racial composition of modern Greece to claims of ancient lineage? Lets stay on topic.

200,000-250,000 in the total of about 1,000,000 were Albanians in Modern Greece after she gained independence, a quarter of the population.

How many of the other 700,000-750,000 do you think were Latin, Slavic, Gypsy and other linguistic groups?

[fatso]

Greece's tactics in friendly assimilation have been one Turkey is following. Greeks from the south get drafted and do their service on the islands or up north. Greek's or Mak's from the north do their service in the south.

The use of Golden Dawn and other anarchy or neo nazi groups are protected by the government. American reporters exposed a link between November 17th and the PASOK party a few years before the Olympics.

Greece is a new Democratic country with an uncut Ambilicol cord from previous Balkan regimes.

[toothpaste]

I don't think so. What relevance has that comment to do with the topic at hand anyway? How does it get from racial composition of modern Greece to claims of ancient lineage? Lets stay on topic.

200,000-250,000 in the total of about 1,000,000 were Albanians in Modern Greece after she gained independence, a quarter of the population.

How many of the other 700,000-750,000 do you think were Latin, Slavic, Gypsy and other linguistic groups?

Here is what historians and ethnologist wrote on the matter.

Johann Georg von Hahn (father of “albanology”) concludes the total number of 173.000 Arbanites in Greece in 1854 (Albaneische Studien,1854).
(total population of Greece 1.096.810)
After Hahn’s own corrections he finally comes to the number of 158.000.(he has done some mistakes abt Fokis and Spercheios areas)

Alfred Philipsson, after touring Peloponese in 1889 ,counted 90.253 Arbanites in this area (730.000 total) .(9.5%)
As for the total number he considers it was 224.000 in a total of 2.187.208 (that’s 10%) (zur ethnographic des Peloponnes,pettersmans mittelingen,1890)

The same year dr.Koryllos in “Ethnography of Peloponnese” concludes 71.037 Arbanites for the Peloponnese ( 7%)

All these numbers of course don’t reflect the ex-greek speaking populations assimilated by the Arbanites in the areas they covered after their arrival in Greece.

Also note that the number of Arbanites in the areas that left out of the Greek kingdom in 1830 (thats all central and northern Greece as well as most of the islands and Crete) was close to zero , making the total percentage of their population really low in building of the modern Greek nation.

[Petros Houhoulis]

Greece's tactics in friendly assimilation have been one Turkey is following. Greeks from the south get drafted and do their service on the islands or up north. Greek's or Mak's from the north do their service in the south.

The use of Golden Dawn and other anarchy or neo nazi groups are protected by the government. American reporters exposed a link between November 17th and the PASOK party a few years before the Olympics.

Greece is a new Democratic country with an uncut Ambilicol cord from previous Balkan regimes.

The Greek army has changed considerably. Greek mommies who protest that their siblings are being harassed by the Greek army have imposed the exact opposite of what you suggest. The Greek army is trying to send the soldiers as close as possible to their homes (which is usually impossible since half the army is in the borders with Turkey and another 1/4 in the northern frontiers)

The link between ultra-right wing organizations and the Greek police has some basis, but it is more likely the result of the close relationship that they used to have during the junta and other black moments in Greek history, and it is only between certain die-hard members of the Greek police rather than the entire police force.

The link between PASOK and 17N is an outright slander. In effect, a PASOK government under Chrysochoidis as minister of interior captured the 17N (albeit more because of its' own mistakes, but also as a result of intensive surveillance)

[Risto the Great]

It's stupid for anyone to claim ethnic purity in the Balcans..
that goes for both Greeks and Macedonians.

I agree.
More stupid is to claim pure Greekness and (as a consequence) claim to be Macedonian.

[Areianos]

Well we modern Greeks did not write history and Peloponesos was populated mainly by Dorians that migrated from Macedonia to Peloponesos. They were Greek speakers and founders of Linear B.

Besides when the royal houses were waging war amongst each other in southern Greece, Macedonian royalty invited the war refugees from Corinth, Argolis & Sparta to settle in Macedonia as it had vast land (according to Thucydides).

Perhaps it was these war refugees from Corinth, Argolis and Sparta that sent Macedonia to the stratosphere under the reign of Philip.

[Risto the Great]

Sorry, I wasn't there 2000 years ago.
I hear there was less arsenic in the water back then though.

Can I help you with something?

[Areianos]

We are all in this together are we not?

Who knows Risto, you may in fact be a part of us.