Greek propaganda loves Evilya Celebi but ignores Papasynadinos

[TrueMacedonian]

The retardsontheweb did our work for us :

http://www.macedoniaontheweb.com/forum/interesting-macedonian-books-sources/10094-evliya-celebis-seyahatname-book-travels.html

Now they love taking the word from a foreigner to prove they "existed" in history (something Anthony Kaldellis has stated) however look at what someone who was living in Macedonia describe the population as (using the same book as the retardontheweb did)




Hellenism Here's "Hellenism" for ya;

[TrueMacedonian]

Now the inconvenience of Papasynadinos is evident here on a propaganda blog where the book I used above (The Ottoman and the Balkans by Fikret Adanir and Suraiya Faroqhi) and the page I posted is mysteriously missing (the only page ):

http://history-of-macedonia.com/wordpress/2008/12/01/the-chronicle-of-serres/

[A-Lion-The-Kiss]

Thanks for an indirect link to an amazing book and an invaluable source, also an excellent sample of demotic Greek from Serres of (about) 1630s or 1640s. Yet, I’m not sure what you’re saying.
Is this a proof for whose “existence” in History? The Macedonians in Serres?
What’s inconvenient about Papa-Synadinos?
Which page is missing from where?

[TrueMacedonian]

Thanks for an indirect link to an amazing book and an invaluable source, also an excellent sample of demotic Greek from Serres of (about) 1630s or 1640s. Yet, I’m not sure what you’re saying.
Is this a proof for whose “existence” in History? The Macedonians in Serres?
What’s inconvenient about Papa-Synadinos?
Which page is missing from where?

The page missing is page 197 from what Johann Strauss wrote on the differences of how Chelebi and Papasynadinos described the people in Serres.
I notice that Papasynadinos used alot of Turkish in his writings as well. Is this fact inconvenient to you as well?

[A-Lion-The-Kiss]

The page missing is page 197 from what Johann Strauss wrote on the differences of how Chelebi and Papasynadinos described the people in Serres.

OK, I totally misunderstood you the first time. Still, I don't get your point. The link you gave includes the extended quote (both in English and Greek). The thread title is also unfortunate. Greeks (including propagandists) love papa-Synadinos. Serres people are... crazy in love with him!!! If only every small city had a chronicle like this.

I notice that Papasynadinos used alot of Turkish in his writings as well. Is this fact inconvenient to you as well?

Nope. How did you notice? It's all Greek to me. (An amazing quote really)
Και τότες ήταν ω αδελφέ, να ιδής παντού εις όλον τον κόσμον το πώς έκλεγαν οι άνθρωποι, άνδρες τε και γυναίκες, γέροντες και παιδιά, πατέρες και μητέρες, αδελφοί και αδελφές, μάνες και τα μικρά παιδιά, Τούρκοι και Χριστιανοί, Εβραίοι και ογίφτοι, κοϊνάροι και χωριάτες, Αρμένηδες και Καραμανλήδες, Αράπηδες και Οτεακαλήδες, Φράγκοι και θαλασσήτες, Σέρβοι τε και Βουγάροι, βλάχοι τε και Αλβανήτες.

[TrueMacedonian]

Nope. How did you notice? It's all Greek to me. (An amazing quote really)

The bottom of page 198 of the same book where Johann Strauss states:

The author deliberately wrote in colloquial language, so his work naturally includes many Turkish terms.

the footnote to the above sentence is:

In order to justify this style to his readers the author explains: "[You may say] that he [i.e. the author of this chronicle] truly uses too many Turkish words. Well I will tell you, just as people in this place, great and small, are accustomed to talk in this way, I also write for you according to their language, their custom, and their habit so that even a small child can understand."

I guess his romaika is different from your bleached version today.

Και τότες ήταν ω αδελφέ, να ιδής παντού εις όλον τον κόσμον το πώς έκλεγαν οι άνθρωποι, άνδρες τε και γυναίκες, γέροντες και παιδιά, πατέρες και μητέρες, αδελφοί και αδελφές, μάνες και τα μικρά παιδιά, Τούρκοι και Χριστιανοί, Εβραίοι και ογίφτοι, κοϊνάροι και χωριάτες, Αρμένηδες και Καραμανλήδες, Αράπηδες και Οτεακαλήδες, Φράγκοι και θαλασσήτες, Σέρβοι τε και Βουγάροι, βλάχοι τε και Αλβανήτες.

Interesting considering these labels are not meant to denote ethnicity but rather religious and labor meanings. You think that calling someone an 'Armenian' had an exclusive ethnic meaning?







Thanks though for bringing up another point about Papasynadinos and the labels used during Ottoman times in the Balkans. Maybe you can explain what kind of an ethnicity an "islander" and "anatolian" is?

[Daskalot]

Nope. How did you notice? It's all Greek to me. (An amazing quote really)
Και τότες ήταν ω αδελφέ, να ιδής παντού εις όλον τον κόσμον το πώς έκλεγαν οι άνθρωποι, άνδρες τε και γυναίκες, γέροντες και παιδιά, πατέρες και μητέρες, αδελφοί και αδελφές, μάνες και τα μικρά παιδιά, Τούρκοι και Χριστιανοί, Εβραίοι και ογίφτοι, κοϊνάροι και χωριάτες, Αρμένηδες και Καραμανλήδες, Αράπηδες και Οτεακαλήδες, Φράγκοι και θαλασσήτες, Σέρβοι τε και Βουγάροι, βλάχοι τε και Αλβανήτες.

Provide an English or Macedonian translation of the above text or prepared to get banned, this is the second time I am highlighting this issue with you and it will be the last.

[julie]

lion will kiss what is it you find so amazing about the term its all greek to me and post in greek on a macedonian forum ? Admins i smell a dirty rat

[A-Lion-The-Kiss]

Provide an English or Macedonian translation of the above text or prepared to get banned, this is the second time I am highlighting this issue with you and it will be the last.

This is the original version of the quote (most of) this thread is about. A part of it is translated in English in Strauss book (bottom of page 199, in the link of post #2). While the beauty of this text is its' colorful language and the slight differences between terms of today and of 17th Century, so I feel a little shy and not capable of translating it. But if you insist, here's my version:
And then it was my brother, oh you could see everywhere and all around, how people were crying, both men and women, old and young, fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters, moms and babies, Turks and Christians, Hebrews and ogypsies, koynars and villagers, Armenedes and Karamanledes, Araps and Oteakaledes, Franks and sea-men, both Serbs and Bugars, both vlachs and Albanetes.
Notes:
Koynars = people from Konya/ Ikonion
Oteakaledes = people from across the Sea, i.e. Anatolians
Araps = Arabs, blacks
Sea-men = islanders

[julie]

what is your nationality ?

[Soldier of Macedon]

Thanks for an indirect link to an amazing book and an invaluable source, also an excellent sample of demotic Greek from Serres of (about) 1630s or 1640s.

Who was 'demotic' Greek spoken by, in Serres? Townsfolk? Villagers? Post a sentence of this 17th century Romaic speech and write the same sentence in modern Greek, which you now call Hellenic. I want to see the difference.

Have you been on this forum before? Here's a chance for you to be honest, you won't be banned for that, take my word.

[A-Lion-The-Kiss]

Who was 'demotic' Greek spoken by, in Serres? Townsfolk? Villagers? Post a sentence of this 17th century Romaic speech and write the same sentence in modern Greek, which you now call Hellenic. I want to see the difference.

Demotic, vernacular, colloquial are later terms to describe everyday language of everyday people (both townsfolk or villagers). In this case it's an average priest. Here's an example:
Και έτζη ως το άκουσαν όλοι οι Τούρκοι έγιναν ωσάν λησαροί. (from papa-Synadinos)
Κι έτσι σαν το ακούσαν όλοι οι Τούρκοι γίναν σαν λυσσασμένοι. (present-day Greek)
Thus, when they heard it, all Turks turned like rabid (English)

Have you been on this forum before? Here's a chance for you to be honest, you won't be banned for that, take my word.

It's my 5th time here (I think). I hope you don't imply I was dishonest the other 4 times.

[Daskalot]

If you have been banned from here 4 times before, what makes you think that you will last this time around? Just for the record, what is the name of my ethnicity, language and country?

[sf.]

Look at the name, look at the avatar, it's our old friend Thessa.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Thessa, against my better judgement, I will not ban you.

But you are already on two strikes, one more and you will never enter this forum again. Ever.