During the Bulgarian occupation of Macedonia in WW2, the Bitola police superintendent ordered the confiscation of badges that carried the inscription "Independent Macedonia", worn by members of the local Macedonian organization Ilinden.
The superintendent directed his subordinates to replace the "confusing" badges with new ones that didn't carry the inscription "Independent Macedonia".
Quote: "The country was infested with lawless Bulgarians. The Macedonians hate the Bulgars, and ask to be governed by England and France, who will, they say, make them wealthy."
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I was having at a look at the Wikipedia entry on the Prespa village of German in Aegean Macedonia (Agios Germanos), just out of curiosity, when I decided to take a look at the Talk page of the same entry. I always make a point of having a look at the latest bullshit being spouted on these “Talk” pages where Macedonian topics are concerned. And, surprise, surprise, the usual Bulgarian suspects, serial editing pests, Jingiby and Laveol were at it again. I was pleasantly surprised, however, by the contrary views being expressed by “Lunch for Two”, who, I can only presume is a Macedonian editor in this debate, and who questioned the logic of these two clowns when it comes to the self-identification of Macedonians during the 19th Century. I think the Macedonian editor stumped these two Bulgarian idiots as they had nothing further to add to the debate, which ended abruptly back in September 2011. Here is some of that debate:
Lunch for Two 10:57, 27 September 2011 (UTC): Laveol, to quote Kanchov, one of the leading Bulgarians of the time: "Местните българи и куцовласи, които живеят в пределите на Македония се наричат сами македонци и околните народи ги зовът тъй. Турците и арнаутите не се казватъ македонци, но попитани от къде са, отговарят: от Македония... така също и гърците, които живеят по южните области, не се казватъ македонци..." By his own admission these are people who call themselves "Macedonians". Bulgarians and Greeks from Macedonia also call themselves Macedonians, however this is only a regional affiliation. It seems unusual for Kanchov to say, as he does, that Bulgarians have this regional affiliation but the Greeks do not. Surely, if he was talking about regional affiliation he would say that Bulgarians and Greeks call themselves Macedonians. This is because in this instance the "Bulgarians" are calling themselves "Macedonians" in an ethnic sense. Furthermore, it seems unusual for the surrounding ethnicities (Turks, Greeks, Albanians, Roma presumably) to call these people "Macedonians" if they were in fact ethnic Bulgarians.
Jingiby and Laveol, I am genuinely interested in how you can somehow interpret this statement as discussing self-identifying ethnic Bulgarians from Macedonia. Surely if it was only a regional designation, then Greeks would also be included in the same category? (Would they be not?) Also, if they were indeed ethnic Bulgarians, then why would the surrounding ethnicities call, them specifically, "Macedonians"?, If we are to take this view then they would in fact be as "Macedonian" as each other, and would call each other by their respective ethnicities. Why, if they were ethnic Bulgarians, would they be called Macedonians by their neighbours?
Laveol 11:08, 27 September 2011 (UTC): In the same way people call me Macedonian only because I come from the region of Macedonia. I think you have troubles with part of the text. The part you chose to quote says that Greeks from the Southern part of the region do not call themselves that way. Turks have no such regional identity, why should they be calling themselves Macedonians? Do you get what he is trying to explain? He wants to put exact boundaries on the term Macedonia. And the only way of doing so is using the regional self-identification of the people living there. And it does not work with Greeks because the ones in the Southern part of the region do not refer to themselves as Macedonians. Read the whole thing, not just the intro about the geography of the region.
Lunch for Two11:36, 27 September 2011 (UTC): Do Turks, Greeks, Albanians and Serbs (okolni narodi) call you simply Macedonian? Surely they do not, logically you would be first referred to as Bulgarian, then as a Bulgarian from the region of Macedonia. I understand what he is trying to say, and he says it clearly. What he is saying is that the locals call themselves Macedonians, and the others around them also call them that. If this was not an ethnic designation, then why would a person from a different ethnicity apply a regional and not ethnic designation?
Jingby11:46, 27 September 2011 (UTC): Laveol, stop talk to him. It will be for nothing. He does not formate any constructive sentence in this conversation. Only POV-pushing.
Lunch for Two12:51, 27 September 2011 (UTC): Jingiby, I dont have a problem discussing so long as you can show valid and logical reasoning. Neither you nor Laveol has been able to discredit Kanchov's comments. If you can show from a reasonable perspective (one which is not biased by our own Balkan related beliefs) that by his own admission the locals viewed themselves as Macedonians, then I will be more than happy to accept your reasoning.
(ДОКУМЕНТ) Тодор Живков: Подготвени сме да ја признаеме македонската нација без временско определување
Една средба во Будимпешта во 1970 година меѓу тогашниот бугарски лидер Тодор Живков и Киро Глигоров, подоцна прв претседател на самостојна Македонија, можела и требала да претставува пресвртница во тогашните југословенско-бугарски односи. Но, за жал, познатата геј-политика на Бугарија ја прокоцкала и таа можност, а работите биле стигнати до ниво на подготвена нацрт-декларација, што требало да ја потпишат Маршалот Тито и Живков. А, со неа, меѓу другото, требало да се решат две суштински прашања и за македонско-бугарските односи.
In her book "The Women of Turkey and Their Folklore", Lucy Garnett states that the Bulgarians, excluding those of Rumelia (Macedonia and Thrace), make up two distinct types: the "Aryan Slav" and the "non-Aryan Tatar". And that those of Rumelia are mixed with Greeks and Thracians
"It is certain that the bulk of the Macedonian population is Slav - it is by no means certain that it is Bulgar... There is a Macedonian language and a Macedonian race... independent of either [Bulgarian or Serbian]."
* Harold Temperley, "History of Serbia" (1919) pp. 309-310
In 1905, Mary Edith Durham claimed in her book, "The Burden of the Balkans" (pp. 77-79), to "have met people who believe in a special race which they call Macedonian" and who told her their language is not Bulgarian saying herself "the dialect... is neither Serbian or Bulgarian".
- Pazardzhik (Bulgarian: Пазарджик) is a city situated along the banks of the Maritsa river, southern Bulgaria. It is the capital of Pazardzhik Province and centre for the homonymous Pazardzhik Municipality.
- Pazardzhik was founded by Tatars from what is today Bilhorod-Dnistrovskyi in 1485 on the left bank of the river Maritsa, near the market of the region, an important crossroad at the middle of this productive region, and named Tatar Pazardzhik meaning "small Tatar market".
Bulgaria is a country of extraordinary beauty, with high, wild mountains and gentle valleys, and with picturesque cities and idyllic villages. It’s bordered by Romania, Serbia Macedonia, Greece, Turkey, and the Black Sea. After many years of communist rule, Bulgaria adopted a democratic constitution and began the process of moving toward political democracy and a market economy while combating inflation, unemployment, corruption, and crime. The country joined NATO in 2004 and the EU in 2007.This third edition of Historical Dictionary of Bulgaria covers its history through a chronology, an introductory essay, appendixes, and an extensive bibliography. The dictionary section has over 700 cross-referenced entries on important personalities, politics, economy, foreign relations, religion, and culture. This book is an excellent access point for students, researchers, and anyone wanting to know more about Bulgaria.
Page 476:
"Under Ottoman rule in Bulgaria in the 15th through the 19th centuries, small groups of Tatars migrated to Bulgaria. The city of Pazardzhik was originally called Tatar-Pazardzhik because of the large Tatar population in acquired in the 15th century. After the khanate of the Crimean Tatars was annexed by Russia in 1783 and especially after the Crimean War (1853-1856), huge numbers of Crimean Tatars were settled in Dobrudja in northern Bulgaria."
- The Encyclopedia of World Cultures lists the ethnonym of the Gagauz as "Turkish" and "Turkish speaking Bulgars". Astrid Menz writes this about the etymology:
Older ethnographic works such as Pees (1894) and Jireček (1891)—both covering the Gagauz in Bulgaria—mention that only their neighbors used the ethnonym Gagauz, partly as an insult. The Gagauz themselves did not use this self-designation; indeed, they considered it offensive. Both Pees and Jireček mention that the Gagauz in Bulgaria tended to register either as Greek because of their religion (clearly an outcome of the Ottoman millet-system) or as Bulgarian because of the newly emerging concept of nationalism. According to Pees informants from Moldova, the Gagauz there called themselves Hıristiyan-Bulgar (Christian Bulgars), and Gagauz was used only as a nickname (Pees 1894, p. 90). The etymology of the ethnonym Gagauz is as unclear as their history. As noted above, they are not mentioned—at least not under that name—in any historical sources before their immigration into Bessarabia. Therefore, we have no older versions of this ethnonym. This, combined with the report that the Gagauz felt offended when called by this name, makes the etymology somewhat dubious.
- The Steppe hypothesis suggests that the Gagauzes may be descendants of other Turkic nomadic tribes than Seljuks: such as Bulgars and Cumans-Kipchaks from the Eurasian steppes. In the 19th century, before their migration to Bessarabia, the Gagauzes from the Bulgarian territories of the Ottoman Empire considered themselves Bulgarians. Ethnological research suggest that "Gagauz" was a linguistic distinction and not ethnic. Gagauzes to that time called themselves "Hasli Bulgar" (True Bulgars) or "Eski Bulgar" (Old Bulgars) and considered the term Gagauz, applied to them by the Slavic-speaking Bulgarians (who they called toukan), demeaning. The Gagauzes called their language Turkish and accordingly claimed descent from early Turkic Bulgars who in the 7th century established the First Bulgarian Empire on the Danube. Indeed, one modern Gagauz surname is Qipcakli.
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