Modern Greece 1st constitution, a "Greek" is a Christian, 1827!

[osiris]

terror nova are you still around and making mischief

[Daskalot]

terror nova are you still around and making mischief

No he is not, do you miss him Osiris? The thread got bumped that is why you see his old posts again.

[Pelister]

U ve made a translation error ,which leads to false conclusion.

Good point.

[Homer MakeDonski]

The 1st Constitution of the Greek State, in the year 1827.

??? ---> 4. Provinces of Greece are all those that were taken and will be taken by weapons against the Ottoman Dynasty.

1) ---> 6. Greeks are:
2) ---> a. All those indigenous people of the Greek State who believe in Christ.
3) ---> b. All those, believers in Christ, who under the Ottoman slavery, came or they will come to the Greek State to struggle or to reside in it.
4) ---> e. All those aliens, who come and enrol as citizens.

NOTE: To become a Greek, it was enough to be a Christian!

This document proves that Greeks have a very short memory. They do not remember how the Greek State was made and also who the modern Greeks are.
Why should we Macedonians have to prove that we are Macedonians since antiquity when the Greeks do not have to prove anything for being Greeks.
The fact is that about 180 years ago anybody who was a Christian in the Greek State became a Greek automatically, why does that not bother the modern Greeks?
You see, if someone was a Jew or a Muslim or a Catholic, he/she was excluded immediately. Let us now ask ourselves what is Greek racism and were did it come from?
Just read the above document and you will know why, Greek is a manufactured ethnicity.

Could we say that all of these historical points leading us to one conclusion:
The very first "Father of Greeks" identity is Greek Orthodox Church ?
or
In the beginning was the Greek Church, and the Church has created the Greeks ethnos ...

Were Ancient Macedonians baptized and thus were Greek ?
Was Alexander of Macedon a member of Greek Orthodoxy?

What do you people think about it?







__________

P.s.Winckelmann, Goethe, , Delacroix,Victor Hugo... all the rest of you ..

What have you done ?

[Soldier of Macedon]

Alexander has nothing to do with Orthodox Christianity, let alone the Greek Church.

The first constitution of Greece says it all, anybody who is a Christian that lives or settles in the Morea is a 'Greek'. The Greek language was used in churches and schools, it was inevitable that all the people within the new state would come to learn it, what the leaders of this new state didn't count on was the resilience of the local languages that were non-Greek, which have managed to exist even till today.

[Risto the Great]

What do you people think about it?

There is no doubt the Greek Orthodox Church helped in the creation of the Greek State. Even though it did not exist at the time, but slightly later in 1850. They still have issues between church and state in Greece.

[osiris]

the orthodox church certainly helped created greece, as simply a christian nation in the balkans, otherwise how do you explain the debates in nauphlion wether arvanitika should be the official language of hellas and the many partcipants in the struggle to create hellass from the leadership to the common insurgents all who could not speak any greek
ironically its only after the establishment of the bavarian greek kingdom that the church suddeny became greek orthodox.
greece may have become a reasonable and modern nation had it not passed through its monarcho fascist stage under metaxas. greece is still the only european nation whose national ideology was determined by facists, it would be like italia under a mussolini or a hitlerian germany existing today.

[Homer MakeDonski]

It used to be as my opinion that some of the Churches at the Balkans are creators of modern nations.
Theses I have is that at the time ...
secondly used to be East Roman Church and all it's Christian members were named "Romaioi" Rumelians meaning member of "East Roman Church".. ,Then "Church of Greece" have got it's Christian members named as "Greeks",or member of Greek Church..
Bulgarian Orthodoxy ...same way..
Still wondering but , guessing I am wrong again .

Anyway

Thanks folk's

[Soldier of Macedon]

The term 'Greek Church' can be found earlier than the creation of the modern Greek state, it is the way westerners referred to the Orthodox East, and it was replicated in some of the terminology of Slavic-speakers.

But to a certain degree, with regard to churches being the main supporters during the creation of the modern Balkan nations, you are right Homer.

Homer, do you remember me from the old days mate, and our 'heated' discussions about Vlado Crnozemski? No hard feelings, hey? Within the next week I will be creating a topic about him, I look forward to your input again, hopefully this time we can be a little more amicable towards each other, as surely there will be some points where will have to agree to disagree. Welcome to the MTO.

[Homer MakeDonski]

Thanks SoM .Of course I do remember .

There is a nice recorded thought that leads me through discussions:

“Many people when faced with some new things, do not say I do not know, but it is not so. Then how it is? As we knew it until now?. Can in such circumstances, be possible to arrive at a pure, or call them, new knowledge.” (Radivoje Pesic)

Yes, please do open the same theme again. I shell be glad to read you.
Regards

[Anarchist]

The name Orthodox Church is generally used to distinguish those of the Greek Rite who are not in communion with the Holy See. It is a name common to the official designation of both Churches of the Greek Rite, but the schismatic or dissenting Churches lay great stress upon the word Orthodox, and its implied meaning of correctness of doctrine, while the Uniat Churches lay equal emphasis upon the word Catholic. Hence these divisions of the Greek Church are respectively called the "Greek Orthodox" and the "Greek Catholic" for convenience in designation.

The New Testament was originally written in Greek, of which 5,650 handwritten copies have survived in Greek, over 10,000 in Latin. When other languages are included, the total of ancient copies approaches 25,000.

To my knowledge the bibles used first off in the orthodox churches were written in Greek ,within the larger communion of the Orthodox Church, sharing a common cultural tradition and whose liturgy is traditionally conducted in Koine Greek,the original language of the New Testament.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Yep, and at the end of the day, when the Greek state was first created this is what a Greek was:

1) ---> 6. Greeks are:
2) ---> a. All those indigenous people of the Greek State who believe in Christ.
3) ---> b. All those, believers in Christ, who under the Ottoman slavery, came or they will come to the Greek State to struggle or to reside in it.
4) ---> e. All those aliens, who come and enrol as citizens.

Long live the descendants of........who?

Do you know what language Greece's first president spoke?

[makedonin]

Wouldn't he say "Un jam Shqiptar" rather than "ειμε Έλλενας" or was it "Sunt Arman"

[Soldier of Macedon]

I believe one of our Albanian members called Epirot was searching for this thread, so I thought I would give it another 'bump' anyway, in case any of our Greeks wanted to delve into their people's origins.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Continuing on from this thread:

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=7692

.......we didn't actually have an Arvanite president, because we didn’t have a President. Greece was not formed by Albanians.

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1111

The chief authority was conceded to the Albanian shipowners; George Konduriottes of Hydra was elected president of Greece, and Botasses of Spetzas vice-president…..The Greeks are the most prejudiced of all Europeans when there is a question of the purity of the Hellenic race, and no people regards education with more favour; yet with all this nationality and pedantry they intrusted their public affairs, in a period of great difficulty, to two men who could not address them in the Greek language. (George Finlay, History of the Greek Revolution)

Arvanites were a minority, not significant enough (either in numbers or quality) to be EVEN mentioned in the formative proclamations of our country.

That's because the first Greek constitution used religion as a criteria, not ethnicity. And you're delusional if you think the Albanians weren't significant in the creation of modern Greece. The Albanian language was widely spoken from the armed forces to the politicians to the peasants. And the argument of Christian Albanians accepting Greek (or rather Romaic) as the official language doesn't have much weight given that the Muslim Albanian Ali Pasha also used Greek in official correspondence. In some ways, this Ottoman quasi-state was the precursor to the future Greece.