1916 Grk Magazine article upset that soldiers in grk army speak Albanian

[TrueMacedonian]

I want to prove a point with this topic because it is important to understand what language was being spoken in the Modern Greco army,,,,and navy, so here's some more info to add to elaborate why this Parnassos article was bitching about Albanian being spoken widely throughout the Modern Greco army; (these are old posts but relevent to the topic)






This book was published in 1914. Now this is what Venizelos said. This book was published in 1920!




I mean how much more can we honestly say here? Considering the facts I would have to wager that Romaika was nothing more than a foreign language for more than half the population of Modern 'greece' in the early 20th century. Where is this hellenism? Where are the hellenes?

The ufologists in A'm'AC have alot to explain here.

What if I ask the offspring of these Albanians mentioned above? Would I get an honest answer or one full of BS like you?

[Voltron]

They shed blood for the Hellenic cause. We honor them as our own. Even if their origins are Albanian. Find a Suliot today and tell them they are an Albanian. Then come and post about your experience.

[TrueMacedonian]

[Voltron]

Also, who is to say there werent Greeks that spoke Albanian and thus an Arvanite ? That is also a possibility that many Greeks believe. There are a lot of grey areas in the Balkans, to try to prove racial purity is just silly.

[Voltron]

Are you kidding me? What is the difference between an Albanian and an Arvanite? They are more akin to each other than the Greeks and Cypriots are. Even in 1814 the Albanians of Greece were calling themselves 'Shqiptar' (or 'Skipetar' as transliterated below):

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1748&highlight=skipetar

The names 'Albanian' and 'Arvanite' are not native to today's Albanians, the first is Latin and the second is a Greek transliteration. The Turks used the word Arnauts, as did others in the region, including the Albanians themselves.

Because they were Christians, the exchange was based on religion. It seems apparent that you use the same criteria for Greek ethnicity.

No SOM I am not kidding. Do you know when the Arvanites settled in Greece ? That link you posted does not shock me. Its stated in the wiki link if you would like to read it. Its not a long read. If you see something you disagree with please let me know. Its pretty balanced.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arvanites

Arvanites (Greek: Αρβανίτες, Arvanitika: Arbėreshė or Αρbε̰ρεσ̈ε̰) are a population group in Greece who traditionally speak Arvanitika, a dialect of the Albanian language. They settled in Greece during the late Middle Ages and were the dominant population element of some regions of the Peloponnese and Attica until the 19th century.[1] Arvanites today self-identify as Greeks[2][3][4] as the result of a process of assimilation, and do not consider themselves to belong to Albania or the Albanian nation.[5] They call themselves Arvanites (in Greek) and Arbėror (in their language); the communities in northern Greece also use the term Shqiptar (the same used by Albanians of Albania), a term strongly disliked by all the other Arvanites, who also resent being called Albanians.[3] Arvanitika is in a state of attrition due to language shift towards Greek and large-scale internal migration to the cities and subsequent intermingling of the population during the 20th century.

Regarding the last comment, it was a rhetorical question directed to Onur.

[Voltron]

Atheist, Deist, or Paganism have Hellenic traditions. Islam does not.
Even if Pericles himself was to convert to a muslim we would no longer consider him part of our ethnos. It has nothing to do with genes, blood, dna, etc.

We often get accused of claiming everything under the sun as Greek, but you wont ever here a peep out of us regarding Sinan or Mehmet the conqueror. That should say something.

Why is it that Ottoman understands what I am saying and you dont ? Its the last time I am explaining this to you.

[Onur]

Muslim Greeks are not my kinsmen. We dont honor them. They were weak, they compromised themselves out of pure self interests. They got their sunets and turned their backs on where they came from. They are Turks now, pure and simple.

We can see the hints of your standard Greek indoctrination here.

Whats religion got to do with ethnicity? People doesn't become something else just because they changed their religion. For example, protestant or Catholic Greeks, they aren't Greek anymore since they are not orthodox? What about atheist, deist or even pagan Greeks who worship pagan gods? They aren't Greek anymore either?

Then tell me who is Greek in your book? Orthodox Turkish christians, Albanians, Vlachs, Gagauz are Greek to you just because they are orthodox??? Whats your criteria?

[George S.]

voltron the propaganda coming out of greece is state driven & it's telling people not to compromise on anything that's what the macedonians need as they are too compromising & givin too easily.The truth is that the greeks won't admit to anything even if their life depended on it.It can only happen in greece that is to dictate to people not to speak a language i'm sure the albanians don't care what they are told & they are going to speak albanian.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Are you kidding me? What is the difference between an Albanian and an Arvanite? They are more akin to each other than the Greeks and Cypriots are. Even in 1814 the Albanians of Greece were calling themselves 'Shqiptar' (or 'Skipetar' as transliterated below):

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1748&highlight=skipetar

The names 'Albanian' and 'Arvanite' are not native to today's Albanians, the first is Latin and the second is a Greek transliteration. The Turks used the word Arnauts, as did others in the region, including the Albanians themselves.

Turkish Christians ? So why did you send them over to us then Onur ? If they were " Turks ".

Because they were Christians, the exchange was based on religion. It seems apparent that you use the same criteria for Greek ethnicity.

[Voltron]

Maybe you should go back to page 1 and read the first post.

I did, its obvious you dont know the difference between Arvanite and Albanian.
Post me sources where it shows Albanians were the majority in mainland Greece.
Again, how is this not applicable to ROM if not moreso?

[TrueMacedonian]

How many Albanians are employed in ROM's military today ? Are we to deduce there are no Macedonians due to the fact you have Albanian regiments enlisted ? I dont get the topic of this thread.

Mark Mazower had a listing of Slav toponyms in Peloponeese Greece. I heard it was pretty good. I dont remember the title of the book. Anybody know ?

Maybe you should go back to page 1 and read the first post.

[Voltron]

Sorry for the off topic with Onur, Just to get back on topic I asked below the following.

How many Albanians are employed in ROM's military today ? Are we to suggest there are no Macedonians due to the fact you have Albanian regiments enlisted ?

[Voltron]

George this ethnically pure accusation is really overblown. Who really says this ? Tell me.

[George S.]

Voltron yoou forget that the greeks are more resentfull against the albanians.Macedonians have proved they are cable of working with anyone provided they behave themselves in the right way.THe greeks find it hard after the BS that the greeks are ethinically pure,they find it hard to accept it in practice.Who gives a shit, the albanians have a right to express themselves in albanian.Who is greece to tell people how to express themselves unless they are nazis.

[Voltron]

There was no madness between Turks here unlike in Greece. There was some kind of madness between Armenians and the rest of people in Anatolia but thats all. In Greece, Arnauts and Greeks killed their own kinsmen only because of religious difference and thats madness in my book.

Some kind ? Systematic extermination is "some kind" of madness ? Thats all ? So its ok if you take somebody out but as long as its not one of your own kind. Right ? You probably dont mean it, your just caught up trying to defend your position.

Muslim Greeks are not my kinsmen. We dont honor them. They were weak, they compromised themselves out of pure self interests. They got their sunets and turned their backs on where they came from. They are Turks now, pure and simple.

The mentality difference between Turkey and Greece is, neither Arnauts, Pomaks, Karakachans nor Circassians in Turkey doesn't say that they are more Turks than others and they don't claim that they are descended from central Asian Turks. They know who they are and why they are here in Turkey.

There is no difference in mentality. Stop lying.

Even some part of Cretan immigrants says that they are Greeks and spoke Greek only 100 years ago cuz it`s not a taboo here. Can Turkish christians do the same in Greece? Hell no. Turkish christian writer, Karakasidu tried to say that about 400.000 of one million immigrants from population exchange was only speaking Turkish and they were Turks not Greeks and you know what happened next. They thrashed her car, broke her windows, newspapers published all addresses of her properties in Greece and US to encourage people to destroy it. She also got death threats. Am i wrong?

Turkish Christians ? So why did you send them over to us then Onur ? If they were " Turks ". Your really surprising me Onur.