Origins of Albanian language and ethnos

[TrueMacedonian]

This is an obvious ignorant statement on this filmmakers part;

He found instant support from the city’s famed filmmaker Mrinal Sen who said he could not understand the sentiments of the Albanian government. “I just do not see any reason why the government in her country of birth should take her remains out of the city. How can we give away a part of our heritage, our history?"

Her birth was in Skopje,,,not Tirana.

Besides this fact I do not appreciate the Albanian government making claims to Mother Teresa. She may have been Albanian or Half Albanian but she felt more Christian than anything. And the Indians feel such a spiritual connection to her that it would be wrong to remove her body from India. I hope Macedonia does not ask for he remains because that is just downright wrong in my opinion. "She lived here and died here" as the Indians said. Albania needs to stop making up myths and needs to get with the program of reality.

[Soldier of Macedon]

She was born in Macedonia of Albanian and possibly Macedonian origins, if anything the Macedonians would have more right to make such a request than Albania. But as TM said, that would be wrong. Macedonia will celebrate her memory because she was born there and that in itself is a significant fact, but she carried out most of her life's work in India, her body belongs there, I am sure that she would have wanted the same thing. Let her rest in peace.

[George S.]

I don't think the indians are going to give her up so easily & she would belong more to the macedonians because she is born in skopje.If anything she belongs to the vatican & her body may have to go to Rome!

[Pelister]

Very interesting.

I always believed that the present day Albanians were settled in the region by the Byzantines, or had arrived there between the 7th and 10th century.

[Soldier of Macedon]

The Byzantine sources indicate that the Christianized Arab tribe Banu Ghassan led by Jabal bin al-Ayhan called Arna'ut, fled from Syria during Muslim al- futuhat and received from the emperor Constantine II a fief in Macedonia. Some historians speculate that the emperor Nicephorus I who ruled in Constantinople between 802 and 811 CE, was himself a scion of of Jabal, the last Ghassanid chieftain. During the reign of Abbasid caliph Harun al-Rashid, even the serious Muslim scholars believed that the Arnauts of Albania are Arab Ghassanids from Syria or the Berbers from Afrikiyya who 'being blinded by the Jahiliyya (pre-Islamic ignorance) became Nasara (Christians). They crossed the Mediterranean Sea and settled down in the land of Rum' ( Al-Sayyid Ahmad bin al-Sayyid Zayni Dahlan, Al-futuhat al-islamiyya ba'ad mudiyi al-futuhat al-nabawiyya, Cairo: Maktaba al-Islami, 1323 H/1905 CE, pp.80-83.).
In the high Middle Ages, both the Muslim Osmanlis and the Christian Habsburgs recruited to their armies the vicious dark-skinned Morovlachi from the Bosnian and Montenegrin hills. Those nominal Orthodox Christians were completely Serbicized in the end of seixteen century.
There are plenty numismatic and paleographic evidences that the Arab and Berber Muslims from Sicily and Maghreb explored the Dalmatian coast and established several trade posts in Albania.

After the collapse of Islamic state in Sicily, many Muslim Arab and Berber muhajereen could crossed the narrow Adriatic Sea and took refuge in the Albanian hills . How many survivors of the massacre of the Muslim deportees from the Apulian city of Lucera (1300CE) escaped the Christian sword and found asylum in Albania is a subject of historical supposition. Apparently, some of the Crne Arapi (Black Arabs) of the medieval Hum, Bosnia and Albania were the descendants of the mujaheddin of the last Muslim intifadah in Sicily led by the legendary Al-Mirabetto ('Amir Abad')(E. Chelebi, Ptepis, Bulgarian tr. And ed. By S. Dimitrov, Sofia; Institut za Balkanstika pri Bulgarskoi Akademii Nauk, 1972, p. 223, Macedonian tr. And ed. By A. Matkowski, Makedoniya vo delata na stanskite patopistzy, Skopje: Misla 1991, p.561.).
Undoubtedly, some Muslim survivors from 'safe haven' of Lucera reached the self-reliant Ragusian merchant republic which had in the past a very good trade relations with the Islamic Sicily, Spain and Levant. If these Muslims refugees from Sicily and Apulia were among the Albanians, certainly, they were those people who enthusiastically welcomed the Osmanli troops led by Yakut Pasha and Hodja Firouz. These Osmanli generals who captured Kroia (Ak Hisar) in 1396 CE, liberated Albanians from the heavy yoke of Catholic church's tax imposition.

http://www.iiu.edu.my/deed/quran/albanian/Albchapt.htm

Thanks Bratot, good information that goes some way in corroborating a few of Celebi's assertions. I think the main point of contention (if the Arab theory was to be given acceptance) is the timeframes, Celebi and his Albanians may have brought the story of their arrival back a few centuries to conform to the Jabal story and Islamic legend.

[Bij]

She was born in Macedonia of Albanian and possibly Macedonian origins, if anything the Macedonians would have more right to make such a request than Albania. But as TM said, that would be wrong. Macedonia will celebrate her memory because she was born there and that in itself is a significant fact, but she carried out most of her life's work in India, her body belongs there, I am sure that she would have wanted the same thing. Let her rest in peace.

my sentiments exactly!

[Soldier of Macedon]

Macedonian and Albanian - Linguistic Comparison

Let us compare standard marine terms between Macedonian and Albanian, and determine their origins. I have included Italian as a section for reasons that will become obvious shortly.

English-Macedonian-Albanian-Italian

Fish - Riba - Peshk - Pesce
Sand - Pesok - Rere - Rena
Water - Voda - Uje - Acqua
River - Reka - Lume - Fiume
Lake - Ezero - Liquen - Lago
Sea - More - Deti - Mare
Swim - Pliva - Notoj - Nuoto

All of the Macedonian words are native and also common in the Slavonic languages, which means that they are not loans from Italian. Albanian, on the other hand, differs substantially, as their current living space has often been under Italian influence, and the similarity of the words between Albanian and Italian would have to mean that they are either of a common origin or one has loaned en masse from the other. As Albanian examples are lacking in Italian, it is rather obvious that Albanian has taken from Italian, and not the other way around.


I will post more examples as they come to mind. I hope some our of Albanian members like Astrit can contribute.

[Risto the Great]

Hi SoM, an interesting exercise.
I would have thought the Venetian language might be more appropriate than Italian as a means of comparison, but most examples do not line up as similar as contemporary Italian.

[Bij]

We borrow from Italian, don't we? I used Macedonian to help learn italian, but they do say the more languages you know, the easier it is to make mental connections between words

for eg, the word 'vetrina' is the same. mould/muvla/mufla, vai/vie


and in turn, italy names its fruit salad after us 'salata di macedone'

[Soldier of Macedon]

That's insignificant in comparison, Latin elements are strong in Albanian, very strong, as are some others. Albanian has borrowed a huge amount of loans that have become core and fundamental in the language, the same cannot be said of Macedonian.

Are you of Albanian ancestry?

[Soldier of Macedon]

Hi SoM, an interesting exercise.
I would have thought the Venetian language might be more appropriate than Italian as a means of comparison, but most examples do not line up as similar as contemporary Italian.

I think that Venetian would probably be found in the more 'traditional' Albanian words where it may be assumed by some that they are native rather than loaned.

Albanian as a language would have received its Slavonic influence from dialects related to Macedonian and those of Serbia and Montenegro, through interaction/settlers, kingdoms and churches. So I will use Macedonian as the reference point unless otherwise required (for example, a word that exists solely in Serbian).

[Astrit]

Albanian: Pellg-puddle

That's insignificant in comparison, Latin elements are strong in Albanian, very strong, as are some others. Albanian has borrowed a huge amount of loans that have become core and fundamental in the language, the same cannot be said of Macedonian.

Are you of Albanian ancestry?

The language has managed to survive for this long it is a accomplishment I believe considering all the invasion, foreign influence on a relatively small group of people. Most Albanians were once Catholic so Latin influence is to be expected, 1/3 of Albanian consists of Latin loans, another 1/3 is considered Proto-Albanian the rest would fit into the "other" category.

[Soldier of Macedon]

1/3 of Albanian consists of Latin loans, another 1/3 is considered Proto-Albanian the rest would fit into the "other" category.

So then it would be fair to say that today's Albanian vocabulary is more non-Albanian than Albanian?

How much % of Slavonic words in the Albanian language? 20%? 10%? Less? I notice that even words such as 'Besa' have a Slavonic origin, were you aware of this? 'Beseda' is cited in Church Slavonic texts from the 9th century.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Let's look at a Macedonian-Albanian comparison of terms related to kinship, I am using the common words for each example, and a possible relation in other languages. Again, note that all Macedonian words are native and not loaned from other languages. I have separated the comparison into 3 sub-sections to indicate the possibility of native words, Ottoman loans and Latin loans.


English-Macedonian-Albanian-Other

Father - Tatko - Baba - Baba (Arabic)
Mother - Majka - Nene - Ane (Turkish)
Uncle - Chichko - Daje - Dayi (Turkish)
Aunty - Tetka - Teze/Halle - Teyze/Hala (Turkish)

Sister - Sestra - Motra - Madre (Italian for 'mother')
Grandchild - Vnuk - Nip - Nipote (Italian)
Woman - Zhena - Femer - Femina (Italian)
Child - Dete - Femija - Femina (Italian for 'woman')

Grandfather - Dedo - Gjysh (Authentic Alb. word?)
Grandmother - Baba - Gjyshe (Authentic Alb. word?)
Man - Mazh - Burre (Authentic Alb. word?)
Brother - Brat - Vella - (Authentic Alb. word?)
Son - Sin - Bir - (Authentic Alb. word?)
Daughter - Kjerka - Bije (Authentic Alb. word?)
Cousin - Bratuched - Kusheri (Authentic Alb. word?)

[Soldier of Macedon]

TM, this is one of your links.

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1957

It appears to be the same Maniakos that transferred populations from Sicily to Albania in the 11th century.