Greece, History, Truth

[George S.]

onur your explanation seems plausible,unless there is evidence that the sultan was gay why would he fck some 14 year old up the ass when rhere were so many beautifull women around.I can understand the greeks wanting to root someone up the arse but not the otherway around.The truth is that it's probably a made up story full of bullshit to cover the fall of constantinople.aren't the greeks full of fanciful ideas.The greeks will do anything to cover their asses including reinventting truth with lies.

[Onur]

aren't the greeks full of fanciful ideas.The greeks will do anything to cover their asses including reinventting truth with lies.

Yes they are George, you are right. I edited my post above and added info about the siege of constantinople by crusaders and what they have done to the city. On the other hand i can give you one example what Mehmet II did to the Byzantines after 1453;

This beautiful building in Istanbul has been constructed in 1454 by the order of Mehmed II, just one year after Turks got the city;



We can say that this was the first university of Istanbul. This building has been awarded to the Istanbul patriarchy by Mehmed II and all the kings, princes and monarchies of Balkan provinces from Morea, Sofia, Romania, Serbia to Hungary has been raised and educated here when they were young. So, Mehmed II adopted the Turkish system for the education of future christian rulers for Balkan provinces and this system continued `till 19th century. Istanbul patriarchy still owns this property today.

Btw, gotta remind you that while these things happening in 1454 at Istanbul, western world was at pre-renascence era and they were living like animals; witch hunting, extermination of jews and cats in the name of stopping black plague to spread, other filth and diseases...



It`s ironic that Greeks now thinks Mehmed II fcked them in the ass while it was the catholics who really raped them 200 years b4 that. On the other hand, modern Greeks gone bankrupt today and they are still getting fcked in the ass by the very same people today!!! and their politicians still blame Turks for that!!!

In my opinion, Mehmed II did a mistake by respecting and trusting these Byzantines. It was the biggest mistake in 600+ years history of Ottoman Empire. Mehmed II should have done what Crusaders did to them 200 years ago. He should have convert them to islam as modern Greeks claims today or force them to go exile. Then western europeans couldn't even find single philhellene Arvanite in Morea to create modern Greece in 19th century.

[George S.]

once again you offer plausible answers.THe only people that were fcking people up the arse is the greeks themselves.Now today like you said they get it from the EU.That's why they call themselves hellasses that's why ehey are all fcked up & resort to picking on defenceless countries like macedonia.They would not dare tangle with turkey because it's got 10 million soldiers.Greek reasoning defies logic all the time they would have you beleive that someone so wealthy & smart like the sultan mehmet would degrade themselves & fck a 14 year old boy up the ass.they should know better than that,But they have concocted heaps of myths & lies about other countries.The greeks have used lies & fear tactics to prevent both macedonia & turkey from being admitted to the EU.

[Ottoman]

Lol Mehmed II was gay and pedofile? whats next? he was also superman?

The Byzantine Empire never had a ruler like Mehmed II so I understand the jealousy, just tell me my Greek friend why were many Byzantines happy about the fact that Mehmed II was the new ruler of Constantinopel? everyone just hated Constantine XI, have you ever asked yourself why?

[Onur]

once again you offer plausible answers.

Thanks George.

All they do is feeding the hateful propaganda, nothing else. Bulgarians are same as Greeks too. For example, this was on the news in Turkish media this week;



This church has been constructed after the declaration of separate exarchate church by the sultan. It`s just ~100mt away from the red Greek church in my previous post. Probably Bulgars wanted their church to be as close as possible to the Greek one, just to piss off Greeks. It`s unique by it`s cast-iron construction. Probably it`s the oldest church in the world made with full 100% cast-iron, even inside of it.

In the media, it was saying that because poor ass Bulgaria couldn't give enough money for it`s restoration, so Turkish cultural ministry will pay all the expense of it. I am not sure but i think it`s same for Greeks too. They don't give any money to us for restoration works of their churches either. All they do is spreading propaganda like supposedly Turks fcked them in the ass and not doing anything useful at all. The situation is same for Bulgars too. Ofc in the meantime, they continue to destroy Turkish monuments in their country or paint nazi symbols and "death to the turks" on their walls.

[George S.]

Hey onur where's our greek friends they are busy doing you know what to each other,It's
very sad when they resort to such things we call them low lifes they have no respect for no one.

[Soldier of Macedon]

This building has been awarded to the Istanbul patriarchy by Mehmed II and all the kings, princes and monarchies of Balkan provinces from Morea, Sofia, Romania, Serbia to Hungary has been raised and educated here when they were young. Mehmed II adopted the Turkish system for the education of future christian rulers for Balkan provinces and this system continued `till 19th century.

Onur, what do you mean by the 'Turkish system' and how did it impact on the individuals that went on to have careers as clergymen?

Btw, gotta remind you that while these things happening in 1454 at Istanbul, western world was at pre-renascence era and they were living like animals; witch hunting, extermination of jews and cats in the name of stopping black plague to spread, other filth and diseases...

Implying that people in the western world (in the general sense) were living like 'animals' is incorrect and misleading. I am positive that similar generalisations can be (and have been) conjured about people in Asia at given periods throughout history. In both cases they are based on the actions of some societies or segments of societies, and not on all the societies as a whole.

[George S.]

Som ihave met greeks that regard instanbul as greek for what happened in the byzanteen empire.They regard constantinople as theirs & actually visit the place.They said the rent is pretty cheap there & they admit it is still magnificent.

[Onur]

Onur, what do you mean by the 'Turkish system' and how did it impact on the individuals that went on to have careers as clergymen?

The system for future rulers in both Ottoman and Seljuk empires was like that; When the sons of the sultan becomes 6-7 year old, they are taken from their mother and given to the several scholars for their education cuz they must be fully ready to rule the empire when their father dies. They learn several languages, religion, math, history, warfare skills, literature and whatever necessary for them. It`s like janissary system but it`s a special version for future sultans.

For example, i posted a msg here about a poem for Alexander the Great. This poem has been written in 1390 AD just for the education of the son of Beyazit I to learn about Alexander when he was young;

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=4444

You know, Ottoman Empire already had already all Balkan provinces b4 conquering Istanbul at 1453 AD and by building that place at 1454, Mehmed II wanted same system to be used for all the future rulers of Wallachia, Serbia etc. under the supervision of Byzantine scholars and ofc with orthodox christianity as a religion instead of islam.

Implying that people in the western world (in the general sense) were living like 'animals' is incorrect and misleading. I am positive that similar generalisations can be (and have been) conjured about people in Asia at given periods throughout history. In both cases they are based on the actions of some societies or segments of societies, and not on all the societies as a whole.

Well, it is true SOM. Western world has surpassed eastern world(incl. Balkans) after renascence, reform and industrialization. Before that era, Vatican was selling territories from heaven for money, filth and diseases was everywhere. They were burning Jews alive by thinking that they were the cause of plague. They were crucifying cats and women for being witches. They didn't even have toilets.

You cant do same generalizations for eastern world of that era. At the same era, Istanbul was like a told above, Taj Mahal was about to be build in India, there was medicine and science in eastern world much earlier than the works of leonardo da vinci. Also, food was never a problem in mesopotamia and the rest of Asia while it was exactly opposite for western Europe. Already the secondary reason(maybe primary) for crusaders to came to eastern world was sacking the richness of eastern world which was lacking in western side. Roman priests was trying to lure crusaders by saying that even the streets was made of gold in eastern world. Well, it wasn't that much but clearly eastern world was much more advanced and civilized than western world.

Som ihave met greeks that regard instanbul as greek for what happened in the byzanteen empire.They regard constantinople as theirs & actually visit the place.They said the rent is pretty cheap there & they admit it is still magnificent.

Yes i know that most Greeks regards Istanbul as Greek city even tough Turks rule it for nearly 600 years. It`s biggest delusion in the world Well, they regard Izmir as Greek city too even tough Turks took it at 11th century more than 900 years passed but they still cant handle the truth thanks to the Greek education system!!! It`s ironic that neither Byzantines nor ancient Greeks ruled Izmir for more than 900 years but they regard as it`s supposedly a Greek city even tough Turks rules here for nearly ~1000 years.

[George S.]

Onur you know what imean when i say that the greeks have really gone out of their way to provide a colorfull & fancifull explanations for different things.In ancient days they call them myths more or less made up lies so that they can live with reality.

[Ottoman]

Greeks ruled my ass, when they ruled Izmir there werent any Turks there, we ruled them for 400 years, they ruled nothing.
They didnt rule us, they only ruled the lands where nobody lived on.

[Soldier of Macedon]

You know, Ottoman Empire already had already all Balkan provinces b4 conquering Istanbul at 1453 AD and by building that place at 1454, Mehmed II wanted same system to be used for all the future rulers of Wallachia, Serbia etc. under the supervision of Byzantine scholars and ofc with orthodox christianity as a religion instead of islam.

That doesn't exactly qualify the term 'Turkish system', does it? That sort of 'system' which included education for young rulers in the making, etc was already in existence well before the Turks arrived in the Balkans and Anatolia.

Before that era, Vatican was selling territories from heaven for money, filth and diseases was everywhere. They were burning Jews alive by thinking that they were the cause of plague. They were crucifying cats and women for being witches.

The Vatican on its own hardly counts as the whole western world. I think you're referring to some more extreme examples which may have been common in some areas but certainly would not be the norm across the whole western world.

They didn't even have toilets.

Lol, who had toilets in that era, Onur?

[Ottoman]

The Turkish system was different than the previous one in the terms of toleration, Mehmed II tolerated other religions.

Jews suffered a lot in Europe but were allowed to live their lifes on Ottoman grounds.
The whole western world was working this way, burning down heretics, Jews, witches and cats, dont fool yourself.

In other words we brought humanity back to the Europeans, we gave Europe so many things, Serdarot just explained it nicely.

[Serdarot]

1. the "western world" was persecuting the early Christians.

2. the Ancient Macedonians were the First Christians in Europe

1+2= the "western world" was persecuting Ancient Macedonians + other Christians


SOM:

you should know that the Romans had toalets and canalization. They probably got it from the Ancient Macedonians.

and as far i know, the Turkish Amamīs (public baths) between the canalisation, the cold and the warm water, also had toilets...

as far i know, the "western world" should be in eternal gratitude to the Turks and the Arabs, couse mostly those 2 cultures saved the achievements made by our Ancient Ancestors

Medicine books / knowledge, Aristotels works and many other books, were translated from Arab into Latin or into "greek", and later translated to the ancestors of the modern west-european languages

get some more information about the period of Arab and Turkish "domination" in Europe, specialy about the Arabs in Al-(v)Andaluz and the Turks

part of the "primitive muslims" picture, projected through the "western world", is just a bs like the greek myth ^^

[Onur]

That doesn't exactly qualify the term 'Turkish system', does it? That sort of 'system' which included education for young rulers in the making, etc was already in existence well before the Turks arrived in the Balkans and Anatolia.

Nope, it wasn't exactly like that. In the Turkish system, young rulers was being taken from the palace and given to the scholars in to another city and then getting education `till their father(king) dies. It was like today`s boarding schools and like janissary system of that era.

The Vatican on its own hardly counts as the whole western world. I think you're referring to some more extreme examples which may have been common in some areas but certainly would not be the norm across the whole western world.

I think you need to remember some basic facts about medieval Europe. Yes, Vatican meant "everything" for whole western Europe `till reform and the born of protestants in Germany. Pope was simply the ruler of whole Europe except the places under Turkish domain. Even after the reform era, pope still reigned supreme in most of Europe `till the end of renaissance. So, the filth, diseases, ignorance was in whole western Europe.

I didn't even give all extreme examples. Did you know that in the 2nd crusade, sometime around early 12th century Latins even ate the Turkish children in Antakya(Antioch)??? Yes it`s true and known fact cuz they even sent a letter to the Pope and asked if it would be OK to eat Turks, sin or not!!! So, they were even OK with cannibalism.

Lol, who had toilets in that era, Onur?

Serdarot beat me for that answer but SOM, you better come to Turkey next summer and i show you 2500 year old toilets and canalization systems here from early Roman and Persian era and yes, there was toilets in whole Ottoman era too. Also everyone had an opportunity to do basic cleaning and even advance spa care(hamams). You know, there are hamams built in 14-15th century in Balkans.

On the other hand, French people was still shitting in pots and throwing it outta window `till early 19th century or late 18th century. They were also getting bath maybe once in a year or two. Not with clean water either, in some kind of washtub instead.


So, while alexander the great was using toilets and had canalization system in antiquity and even had hamam like place in Persia, Louis XVII in France didn't have those in 18th century!!! Also, the picture of "primitive muslims" exists only for late 200 years. Before that, western world was "primitive" since antiquity, `till Sumerians of 5000 BC.