Greece, History, Truth

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  • Ottoman
    Banned
    • Nov 2010
    • 203

    Yoghurt is a Turkish word, if there was yoghurt in ancient Greece the name and form would be different than the yoghurt we know today, just like Sarma and Cacik.

    By the way ancient Greece and Byzantine Empire are two different timelines, there is something inaccurate in your post.
    All the Turkish foods we know today are not copied but perfected and spread around the Balkans.

    We all know that baklava is a Turkish invention, I dont mind that you guys have it too but just dont lie about the origins...
    Last edited by Ottoman; 02-15-2011, 10:15 AM.

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    • Voltron
      Banned
      • Jan 2011
      • 1362

      Yes, it is a Turkish word. I never said it wasnt. Byzantine is a natural timeline from Ancient Greece. I never said Turkish foods were copied per se, but influenced heavily and your right. It is damn good

      Comment

      • George S.
        Senior Member
        • Aug 2009
        • 10116

        Ottoman you dissapoint me how could you forget TOLUMBI that's definitely (not)GREEK.
        How about the souvlaki is that greek (meat on a stick) or is it turkish??The humble kebab??
        or the kofte??felafel?The greek salad is that really turkish???We make sarma(rice & mince wrapped in cabbage leaves or with vine leaves.What's Gacik?? we make zelnik or maznik this is a pastry that is filled chese,anything & is intertwinened in a circle in the pan & pitulici pancakes.
        Last edited by George S.; 02-15-2011, 10:55 AM. Reason: edit
        "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
        GOTSE DELCEV

        Comment

        • Ottoman
          Banned
          • Nov 2010
          • 203

          Falafel is Arabic/middle eastern, its not that popular in Turkey.

          Meat on stick is sis kebab, I dont know the origins of that, can be Persian or Turkish dont know, I do know that kebab is a Persian word.

          Cacik is the same as Tzatziki.
          Last edited by Ottoman; 02-15-2011, 11:22 AM.

          Comment

          • Soldier of Macedon
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 13675

            Originally posted by Voltron View Post
            Byzantine is a natural timeline from Ancient Greece.
            What are you babbling about now? East Rome (Byzantium) was a continuation of the Roman Empire, which was preceded by the Macedonian Empire.

            Colonialism stemming from ancient Greece was commercial in nature, like those from Spain and Portugal in later times. Most of your Greek-speaking groups far from Greece were as ethnic Greek as today's Peruvians are Spanish, or as Pele was Portugese.
            In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

            Comment

            • makedonche
              Senior Member
              • Oct 2008
              • 3242

              Originally posted by Voltron View Post
              What do you not understand when I say Mainland Greece Makedonche ? Do you want an EthnoKarta or something ? Its on another thread, would you even believe the ones I would post ? Thats why I asked you to tell me since you know everything.
              Voltron
              I'll write in crayons for you to make it easier, how am I supposed to give your interpretations of what you think? How am I supposed to answer your questions when you don't tell me your interpretations?
              On Delchev's sarcophagus you can read the following inscription: "We swear the future generations to bury these sacred bones in the capital of Independent Macedonia. August 1923 Illinden"

              Comment

              • Mikail
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 1338

                Originally posted by Voltron View Post
                Yes, it is a Turkish word. I never said it wasnt. Byzantine is a natural timeline from Ancient Greece. I never said Turkish foods were copied per se, but influenced heavily and your right. It is damn good
                Sorry Voltron but you are very wrong here. There was never an "Ancient Greece", and Byzantium was/is the Eastern Roman Empire, no Greek in Roman buddy!

                That Byzantium was a Greek Empire is yet another Greek Lie.
                From the village of Pípezhani, Tashko Popov, Dimitar Popov-Skenderov and Todor Trpenov were beaten and sentenced to 12 years prison. Pavle Mevchev and Atanas Popov from Vrbeni and Boreshnica joined them in early 1927, they were soon after transferred to Kozhani and executed. As they were leaving Lerin they were heard to shout "With our death, Macedonia will not be lost. Our blood will run, but other Macedonians will rise from it"

                Comment

                • osiris
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 1969

                  Originally Posted by Voltron View Post
                  Yes, it is a Turkish word. I never said it wasnt. Byzantine is a natural timeline from Ancient Greece. I never said Turkish foods were copied per se, but influenced heavily and your right. It is damn good
                  as is the ming dynasty and the aztec empire

                  Comment

                  • Ottoman
                    Banned
                    • Nov 2010
                    • 203

                    Did they speak Greek in the Byzantine Empire?

                    Comment

                    • Voltron
                      Banned
                      • Jan 2011
                      • 1362

                      Originally posted by Ottoman View Post
                      Did they speak Greek in the Byzantine Empire?
                      Yes they did Ottoman. Why dont we ask our hosts here if the Ottoman empire was a Turkish one ? Lets see what they say.

                      Comment

                      • Onur
                        Senior Member
                        • Apr 2010
                        • 2389

                        Originally posted by Voltron View Post
                        Byzantine is a natural timeline from Ancient Greece.
                        Thats B.S!!!

                        Whatever left from ancient Greece has been lost as early as 200 BC when Romans conquered current Greece and Turkey territories. Then about ~500 years laters, Romans themselves decided to divide their empire for administrative purposes and created eastern Roman empire. Also Latin was the language of the court `till late 7th century. So, there was no Greek speaking state there for like ~700 years and surely, whatever left from ancient Greeks was long lost and disappeared forever in favor of Romans, Latins.

                        Even the term "Byzantine" is created in 17-18th century by western European philhellenes. It was always eastern Roman empire and the emperors never identified themselves as different than Romans.

                        Comment

                        • Voltron
                          Banned
                          • Jan 2011
                          • 1362

                          Originally posted by Onur View Post
                          Thats B.S!!!

                          Whatever left from ancient Greece has been lost as early as 200 BC when Romans conquered current Greece and Turkey territories. Then about ~500 years laters, Romans themselves decided to divide their empire for administrative purposes and created eastern Roman empire. Also Latin was the language of the court `till late 7th century. So, there was no Greek speaking state there for like ~700 years and surely, whatever left from ancient Greeks was long lost and disappeared forever in favor of Romans, Latins.

                          Even the term "Byzantine" is created in 17-18th century by western European philhellenes. It was always eastern Roman empire and the emperors never identified themselves as different than Romans.
                          So as early as 200BC all the Greeks on the planet spontaneously combusted into nothingness. Is this a new theory in the making ? I think you got something there.

                          Comment

                          • Voltron
                            Banned
                            • Jan 2011
                            • 1362

                            Originally posted by Voltron View Post
                            Yes they did Ottoman. Why dont we ask our hosts here if the Ottoman empire was a Turkish one ? Lets see what they say.
                            Anybody here want to answer this ?

                            Comment

                            • Onur
                              Senior Member
                              • Apr 2010
                              • 2389

                              You cant compare empires with today`s nation states. Already, there was no such a thing as "nation state" b4 French revolution.

                              To analyze empires, you have to look to the ethnicity of founders and then ruling monarchy(s), also language of the court.
                              • Ottoman Empire founded by Turks but eastern Roman empire founded by Romans from Italy.
                              • Ottoman empire always ruled by same monarchy(Osmanoglu family, House of Osman) for 630 years but eastern Roman Empire ruled by many different monarchies like Latins(Romans), Greeks, Armenians, Macedonians etc. The ruling families changed many times in eastern empire.
                              • The language of the court was always Turkish in Ottoman empire but in eastern Roman empire, it was Latin first for about ~350 years, then Greek for ~500 years, then Latin again for ~100 years when crusaders captured Istanbul and then Greek again for the remaining ~150 years.


                              So, you decide now if Ottoman empire was Turkish or not and eastern Roman empire was Greek or not. IMO yes, eastern Roman empire was Greek for more than half of it`s lifetime but it`s not possible to claim any continuity from ancient Greeks. Also, to be able to claim continuity, eastern Roman Empire would had been created by Greek speaking people but that wasn't the case. "AFAIK", Romans in Italy was speaking Latin, not Greek. Like i said b4, there was no Greek speaking state around here from 200 BC to 700 AD. Thats 900 years of time. So, your claim of continuity is absurd!!!

                              So, in that sense, Ottoman empire was Turkish more than eastern Roman empire has ever been Greek!!! On the other hand, Turkish(Turkic) empires got at least 1500 years of uninterrupted continuity like i explained here b4;
                              Originally posted by Onur View Post

                              Gok-Turk empire;
                              - Established 552 AD
                              - Disestablished 747 AD

                              GokTurk Empire coins found in today`s Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan archeological digging sites. Coins are dated between 576-600 AD. These coins are currently in a museum in Kyrgyzstan;


                              Notice the name of the state and the crescent+star on the coins.


                              At 580 AD, people who lived in western part of GokTurk empire migrated to the further west and founded Turkic Avar kingdom around today`s Hungary/Romania. It disestablished in 9th century and they founded Hungary afterward by mingling with some Slavic, Germanic speaking people and then they became today`s Hungarians.

                              This is the flag of Hungarian speaking Szekely people in Romania. They are believed to be the descendants of Huns and Turkic Avars(thats what Szekelys themselves say too) and this flag probably was Avar kingdom`s flag too;


                              The crescent+star again!



                              Khazar Empire;
                              - Established 618 AD
                              - Disestablished 969 AD

                              After Avar state has been founded, Turkic speaking people at the eastern side of GokTurk empire founded Khazar state.




                              Seljuq Empire;
                              - Established 1037 AD
                              - Disestablished 1307 AD

                              After Khazar Empire disestablished, most of the people migrated into Anatolia and founded Seljuk Empire.


                              You know the next one, Ottoman Empire founded at 1299 AD.

                              Actually there are Huns too but Huns was a confederation of several tribes, tough it`s commonly agreed by every scholar that all the rulers was speaking Turkic and predominant population was the Turks again. If i count Huns too, then our uninterrupted history goes more than 1500 years.
                              Last edited by Onur; 02-16-2011, 06:26 AM.

                              Comment

                              • Ottoman
                                Banned
                                • Nov 2010
                                • 203

                                Originally posted by Voltron View Post
                                Yes they did Ottoman. Why dont we ask our hosts here if the Ottoman empire was a Turkish one ? Lets see what they say.
                                The Ottoman Empire was multicultural just like all other empires in human history, if the Ottoman Empire was not Turkish the Byzantine Empire was never ever Greek.

                                Most Ottoman sultans were mixed, some even had Greek blood but this doesnt make the Ottoman Empire non-Turkish, like Onur said, Turks founded this empire, most Byzantine emperors were also mixed but are considered as Greeks because they spoke Greek.

                                The Seljuqs spoke Persian, they werent Persians but Turks, you cannot say that this empire was non-Turkish because they spoke Persian.
                                Last edited by Ottoman; 02-18-2011, 01:23 PM.

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