Population of Macedonia and Adjacent Areas

[Carlin]

Trifunoski's research is invaluable. I wonder, was there any real Albanan presence in Macedonia prior to Ali Pasha of Janina's conquests?

There was, but it might be hard to determine exact numbers. Definitely less than prior to the times of Ali Pasha.

On a related note, I read a while back that Ziadin Sela's ancestors hail from Northern Albania (he is from Struga).

Have also read about Albanization of certain Muslim families in Struga, as well as "merging" of Macedonian Muslims with Albanians with Macedonian being abandoned by the Muslims and mixed families. Will try to find more info on this, but I also recall reading specifics about it in the past.

[Carlin]

The quote below comes from Vasil Kanchov. Translated using Google Translate:

"Arnaut devastations continued until 1832, when Rashid Pasha destroyed the Arnaut force near Shkodra. The Ohrid chronicler records two great devastations in these places. In 1805, Arnaut hordes captured the whole area of Ohrid, and in 1821 this chronicler wrote: Until now, Arnaut newcomers from the Shkumba Valley have been sweeping away the Bulgarian population from the western parts of the Ohrid region. Dr. (Joseph) Mueller, who traveled to these places in 1837-38, testified that the village of Ferdovo (Fargovo) had a mixed population of Arnauts and Slavs, and the village of Kalishte was purely Slavic. Now Fargovo is a purely Arnaut village, and in Kalishte there is only 1 remaining Bulgarian house. The emigration of the Bulgarians continues to this day from the other two Bulgarian villages, Radozhda and Lin, and the time is not far off when the entire western shore of the lake will be Arnaut."

There are many Arnaut families in the towns of Struga and Ohrid, but all of them learn Turkish quickly."

http://macedonia.kroraina.com/vk/vk_1_b7.htm

[Liberator of Makedonija]

The emigration of the Bulgarians continues to this day from the other two Bulgarian villages, Radozhda and Lin, and the time is not far off when the entire western shore of the lake will be Arnaut."
http://macedonia.kroraina.com/vk/vk_1_b7.htm

Well............

[Carlin]

Well............

From the same link/article from Vasil Kanchov.

Google Translate (mostly):

"The Arnaut element began to spread to Macedonia with greater force in the second half of the 18th century. At that time, independent Arnaut leaders rose up in Albania and invaded Macedonia. In the areas of Macedonia: in Skopje, Tetovo, Gostivar, Kichevo, Ohrid and other places, semi-dependent Pashas of Arnaut origin appeared. They encouraged Arnaut migrations to these places in order to have the support of loyal soldiers. Ali Pasha of Ioannina reached the greatest power of these Arnaut chiefs, who became stronger at the end of the 18th century in Ioannina. As an independent prince he conquered, apart from a large part of the Albanian lands, the western Macedonian lowlands and the lands of Arnaut domination reached Mount Pelister. From 1788 to 1820, his rule helped the Arnaut population to fortify itself in the Korcha region and capture the southern shore of Lake Ohrid, from where the rest of the "Bulgarian" population either fled or was killed off during the fighting."

[Carlin]

Sat 26 May 1906

Outrage in Macedonia

Eleven families murdered

A lawless band of two hundred persons murdered eleven Kutso and Wallachian families, numbering sixty of all ages, in the village of Gobena. Gobena is situated in Macedonia.

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/page/864693?

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/page/7718701

[Carlin]

The Bulgarian pogrom wiped out Vlach (Arman) villages and towns

Pande Kolemishevski

- This spring marks 105 years since the beginning of the little-known pogrom of the Vlachs from Macedonia carried out by the Bulgarian authorities during the First World War in 1916, when they ruled the territory of present-day Macedonia, and then part of Serbia according to The Bucharest Agreement. In the Macedonian historiography the mass internment of the Vlach families in Bulgaria has not been studied and processed at all, it was not a subject of special interest of the Macedonian historians. Data is not stored in the Bulgarian archives either. There are no surviving written records, except for a few memories of direct sufferers or the memories of their descendants. In some private archives are kept the lists of forcibly displaced families and individuals, as a distant memory of the crimes, as a sad memory, as evidence of missing relatives, neighbors, friends.

- The most characteristic and most mass deportation was carried out in the sub-Pelister villages on the Bitola side: Magarevo, Trnovo, Molovishte, Gopesh and Nizopole. According to Professor Areti Sidovska, who researched the events, one morning in 1916 the Bulgarian commander gathered the inhabitants of Magarevo and Trnovo and told them that they would be deported the next day. He told them that each of them, women, men, old, young, has the right to carry only one bundle, and only in one hand.

Full article in Macedonian:

https://www.novamakedonija.com.mk/makedonija/politika/%d0%b1%d1%83%d0%b3%d0%b0%d1%80%d1%81%d0%ba%d0%b8%d0%be%d1%82-%d0%bf%d0%be%d0%b3%d1%80%d0%be%d0%bc-%d0%b8%d0%b7%d0%b1%d1%80%d0%b8%d1%88%d0%b0-%d0%b2%d0%bb%d0%b0%d1%88%d0%ba%d0%b8-%d1%81%d0%b5%d0%bb/

[Risto the Great]

one morning in 1916 the Bulgarian commander gathered the inhabitants of Magarevo and Trnovo and told them that they would be deported the next day.

If we accept the theories that Vlachs were of a shepherd culture, where were they being deported to?

[Carlin]

If we accept the theories that Vlachs were of a shepherd culture, where were they being deported to?

According to what's written in the article they were deported / relocated to several places throughout Bulgaria:

1) "Од убавите села останале само урнатини, семејствата им биле растурени низ цела Бугарија, најмногу во Русе и Пловдив и во околни села."

2) "Депортираните биле разместувани на повеќе места низ Бугарија, еден дел во Шумен."

3) "Во Струга и во Струшко интернацијата била спроведена по директива на врховистичкото крило на ВМРО, чие влијание во градот било големо. Мноштво стари луѓе, изнемоштени жени, мајки со малолетни деца, свештени лица, патувале пеш од Струга до Кичево каде што биле качени на воз, а оттаму транспортирани во најмизерни услови (како Евреите подоцна) до населби дури во Тракија, каде што им се губи трагата."

[VMRO]

According to what's written in the article they were deported / relocated to several places throughout Bulgaria:

1) "Од убавите села останале само урнатини, семејствата им биле растурени низ цела Бугарија, најмногу во Русе и Пловдив и во околни села."

2) "Депортираните биле разместувани на повеќе места низ Бугарија, еден дел во Шумен."

3) "Во Струга и во Струшко интернацијата била спроведена по директива на врховистичкото крило на ВМРО, чие влијание во градот било големо. Мноштво стари луѓе, изнемоштени жени, мајки со малолетни деца, свештени лица, патувале пеш од Струга до Кичево каде што биле качени на воз, а оттаму транспортирани во најмизерни услови (како Евреите подоцна) до населби дури во Тракија, каде што им се губи трагата."

Could Karakachanov be a descendant of one of these Vlach families?

He is from Ruse and family name has Vlach origins.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Could Karakachanov be a descendant of one of these Vlach families? He is from Ruse and family name has Vlach origins.

I doubt that parasite has any ancestral connection to Macedonia, even if he is a Vlach. His father is supposedly from Gabrovo:

https://agentibg.com/index.php/bg/2014-02-26-14-57-29/268-2015-05-19-05-05-32

[Carlin]

Zagračani: Amidst the Albanian population of Zagračani were Macedonian Muslim families originating from the villages of Oktisi and Podgorci who now speak Albanian.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zagra%C4%8Dani

"За родот Прент се зборува дека се доселени од областа Черменик (село Прент) во јужна Албанија и дека таму биле православни Македонци. Од Прент се иселиле како три куќи тројца браќа. Едниот се иселил во Заграчани, вториот во Мислешево (таму се христијани Македонци), а третиот отишол во Гостиварско. Родовите во Мислешево и Заграчани порано се пазеле како роднини."

https://mk.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%97%D0%B0%D0%B3%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%87%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B8

[Carlin]

An invasion took place in AD 251, led by Cniva, a Gothic chieftain.

Both Lower Moesia and Thrace were devastated and Philippopolis was seized and burnt down. Reports are provided by both Dexippus and Jordanes’ Getica, 101-103.

[Carlin]

History of the Goths, By Herwig Wolfram - Page 142:

"In 397 Arcadius and Alaric entered into a foedus, which allowed the Goths to settle in Emathia tellus, the central Macedonian heartland between the Haliacmon and Axius rivers, in other words, exactly where in 474 the Ostrogoths of Thiudimir and Theodoric were to be settled."

[Carlin]

Iamphorina or Iamphorynna was the capital of the Maedi, a Thracian tribe in ancient Macedonia. It was taken by Philip V of Macedon in 211 BCE. Writing in the 19th century, William Martin Leake placed it at Ivorina (Vrania), in the upper valley of the Morava River.

(A number of Maedi emigrated to asia minor and were called MaedoBythini.)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maedi

[Carlin]

АМЕРИКАНСКИ СВЕДОШТВА ОД 1912: Во Солун, Пела или Воден до денешно време се зборува дека Македонија никогаш не била дел од Грција

https://denesen.mk/amerikanski-svedoshtva-od-1912-vo-solun-pela-ili-voden-do-deneshno-vreme-se-zboruva-deka-makedonija-nikogash-ne-bila-del-od-grcija/