Makedonski Narodni i Patriotski Pesni - Macedonian Folk & Patriotic Songs

[Amphipolis]

Notice this individual likes to consider the songs from all these different languages as "ours" (i.e. belonging to the cultural heritage of Greeks). So, on the one hand they include all of these different songs as "ours" because those languages (most of which aren't Greek) are spoken within the borders of modern Greece, yet on the other hand they also include languages like Grika, which is not even spoken within modern Greece, and Turkish, which was largely brought by Christian immigrants from Asia Minor. I think this individual forgot to add the Urdu, Pashto and Arabic songs to his cultural heritage, you know, those which are popular among the Pakistani, Afghan and Syrian inhabitants of Greece. Ridiculous. The Macedonian songs are part of the cultural heritage of Macedonians, not Greeks. They have a relation and clear meaning to other Macedonians. They mean nothing to Greeks and up until recently were banned in Greece.

In the extended post#319 one can see both approaches (by Simon Carras’ wife Angeliki and by Costas Novakis) yet both of them are highly appreciated in Greece. Such songs in different languages DO belong to the cultural heritage of Greece (the country) not of Greeks (the people) except of course if the authors are Greek.





===

[Amphipolis]

The reason I got on there at all was as a result of trying to find the original words to a couple of beautiful Macedonian songs, originating from Aegean Macedonia, which I have completely fallen in love with - "Bela Olympia" & "Milo Mou Kokino."

These two songs are totally different cases.

“Milo mou kokkino” (My red apple) is now easily considered the most popular Macedonian traditional song and has (original) Greek lyrics. Greek Wikipedia says it’s from Siatista (a town West of Kozani) but other sources (including music school books) suggest Nigrita (a town South of Serres). Normally, traditional songs should be from 19th Century or older, otherwise they would have appeared in discography or we would be able to locate their authors, as their children or friends would still be alive. Yet, I somehow feel the song is younger, though I couldn’t find something definite. Simon Carras bothered to record it in Nigrita at the 1970s which means it was considered obscure back then and not a Greek-wide hit. Actually, the music style is slightly different, a mix of Macedonian syrtos and Kalamatianos. On the other hand, if it was written as late as the 1930s-1960s why can’t we find who, where and when?

The song Bella Olympia (more correctly Bela Lympiο) is of clear origins. It comes from Goumenissa and narrates a simple episode that allegedly happened in the village Griva and includes many names of the people involved. The following link provides what would be an extended answer to your post, written by a nephew of Lympio’s daughter and including lyrics, details, names, pictures of Lympio and his personal views. That is in Greek, you have to use google translation.

https://grivanews.wordpress.com/2012/11/14/%CF%87%CE%BF%CF%81%CF%8C%CF%82-%CE%BC%CF%80%CE%AD%CE%BB%CE%B1-%CE%BF%CE%BB%CF%85%CE%BC%CF%80%CE%AF%CE%B1-%CE%BA%CE%BB%CE%B7%CF%81%CE%BF%CE%B4%CF%8C%CF%84%CE%B7%CE%BC/

Having worked with the Dopious of the Serres Prefecture for more than 20 years, I have run into this problem on many occasions. The prejudicial views of some people as to what is "Greek" and what is not has resulted in the loss of a great deal, including but not limited to songs. One of many examples: I recall in 1984 when the wife of Simon Karas asked to accompany me to Kimisi as she had no experience in this part of the country and wanted to record some songs while I worked with the dancers. The women of the village were honored to sing for her. However, not one song was recorded as the only ones they knew were in "dopia" (Slavic) and she kept telling them she wanted their songs. No matter how much they told her these were their songs, they did not have any in Greek, she refused to record anything. All the women were of an age that were children during the last Bulgarian occupation and had the language restrictions imposed on them. For many, their first language was "ta dopia" but not one considered herself other than Greek. Now most of those women have passed on and all that is lost.

Koimisi (Spatovo) is a village North-West of Serres, close the Greek-Bulgarian borders with an ill fame of fanatic Bulgarian population (Exarchists ranged from 60 to 90% depending on the period) and did not become so because of the 1940s Bulgarian occupation and the ban of Greek language as the narrator suggests. After the population exchanges with Bulgaria and the arrival of Greek refugees the village was still mixed.

[Soldier of Macedon]

"Our" songs do not just mean songs in the Greek language - they include songs in Arvanitika, Vlachika, "Pomakika", Tourkika (of the Karamanlides, Gagaouzides, Bafralides, etc), Ladino (the Sephardic Jews of Thessaloniki and elsewhere), Grika (Southern Italy) etc.

Notice this individual likes to consider the songs from all these different languages as "ours" (i.e. belonging to the cultural heritage of Greeks). So, on the one hand they include all of these different songs as "ours" because those languages (most of which aren't Greek) are spoken within the borders of modern Greece, yet on the other hand they also include languages like Grika, which is not even spoken within modern Greece, and Turkish, which was largely brought by Christian immigrants from Asia Minor. I think this individual forgot to add the Urdu, Pashto and Arabic songs to his cultural heritage, you know, those which are popular among the Pakistani, Afghan and Syrian inhabitants of Greece. Ridiculous. The Macedonian songs are part of the cultural heritage of Macedonians, not Greeks. They have a relation and clear meaning to other Macedonians. They mean nothing to Greeks and up until recently were banned in Greece.

[Karposh]

The following quotes are from a Greek Dancing web site called forums.greekdancing.org. I felt they were interesting enough to include on this forum, just to give people an appreciation and an understanding of the delicate glass house the Greeks are living in, while, at the same time, throwing stones at us, the fake fyromian nation. The reason I got on there at all was as a result of trying to find the original words to a couple of beautiful Macedonian songs, originating from Aegean Macedonia, which I have completely fallen in love with - "Bela Olympia" & "Milo Mou Kokino."

And that's how I came across this greek web site, while searching on-line for the original (Macedonian) lyrics of these two songs. The songs are sung in Greek, however, the rhythm of the music, the beat, the sound, the melody and yes, even the vibe all scream Macedonian. Besides the name of the first song I quoted "Bela Olimpia", which immediately gives away the origin of the song, the second one, Milo Mou Kokino", is much harder to identify. Milo Mou Kokino means My Red Apple in Greek, however, Greek translations of Macedonian songs don't always have literal translations but often adopt Greeks words that the original words most closely resemble.

If I was to hazard a guess, I would bet that the original Macedonian words were something like "Milo Moje Devojche"...(i.e. My Dear Girl) or something along those lines. According to Wikipedia, the song originates in Western Macedonia (think Lerin, Kostur or Voden). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalamatianos

BTW, I had to make a couple of minor grammatical corrections on some of the quotes below. Where they completely lack grammatical correctness, I have left them alone as I don't want to change any intended meaning. Also, it is quite clear that the language used by some forum members on this site is very considered and deliberate (using words such as Dopia & Slavonic in place of Macedonian) to avoid confrontation with the many Greek fascists out there.

Bella Olymbia is a typical example of a song translated from the dopio (local) slav idiom in Greek. We have many of these kind of cases in Macedonia. The translations took place in the context of the construction of the nation-states in the Balkan after the collapse of the Ottoman empire. In general terms you could say 'the song (or the words of the song) are a problem', or the language is a problem (slav, turkish, arvanytika etc). In addition, in many cases the translation is done from school teachers or from the members of the community in the context of 'nykteria' (they helped each other to do the agricultural works). It was a 'choice' for the community' survival. Something that will be exlpore is the impact of this action in the dance performance. It is a problem for the musicality and the rhythmical construction of the dance. The 'prohibited' languages maybe is one of the reasons that instrumental music (brass bands, zournades) dominate the dance tradition in Macedonia.

I'm not sure what you mean by "our" songs. The CDs produced by Kostas Novakis includes songs, all of which were collected in the various villages of central and western Macedonia which were or still are slavophone. He gives us the lyrics and the person and village of origin. The very purpose of the CDs is to make known the slavophone dopia songs of Macedonia to a public, which in some cases, has no idea they even exist. From that point of view they are propaganda, but I don't think with a negative connotation. "Our" songs do not just mean songs in the Greek language - they include songs in Arvanitika, Vlachika, "Pomakika", Tourkika (of the Karamanlides, Gagaouzides, Bafralides, etc), Ladino (the Sephardic Jews of Thessaloniki and elsewhere), Grika (Southern Italy) etc.

Being half Vlach and half Dopios (Macedonian) i can say that things are not quite the same... Friends say...If Vlachs, Arvanites, Asia Minor imigrants can sing Turkish, Arvanitika and Vlahika, why cant we sing in dopia?

One forum member, in response to the question: "I was wondering if any one has or knows the lyrics to the song Bella Olympia......." replied as follows.
I taught at a Frontisterio in Goumenissa and wanted to learn the dance. I asked if anyone knew Bella Olympia (meaning the dance) and a (blonde-haired) girl put up her hand and said "She was my grandmother." I asked for the lyrics, but they could only remember one verse - it wasn't in Greek. And of course I can't find the sheet now.

Having worked with the Dopious of the Serres Prefecture for more than 20 years, I have run into this problem on many occasions. The prejudicial views of some people as to what is "Greek" and what is not has resulted in the loss of a great deal, including but not limited to songs. One of many examples: I recall in 1984 when the wife of Simon Karas asked to accompany me to Kimisi as she had no experience in this part of the country and wanted to record some songs while I worked with the dancers. The women of the village were honored to sing for her. However, not one song was recorded as the only ones they knew were in "dopia" (Slavic) and she kept telling them she wanted their songs. No matter how much they told her these were their songs, they did not have any in Greek, she refused to record anything. All the women were of an age that were children during the last Bulgarian occupation and had the language restrictions imposed on them. For many, their first language was "ta dopia" but not one considered herself other than Greek. Now most of those women have passed on and all that is lost.

Some links from YouTube of the two songs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypnd6ZzhU8E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNWKfqGKsis

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRmc75niJ-E

[Momce Makedonce]

Zajdi Zajdi was the main theme song for the most recent Battlefield game!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lY8uTaUM8Bg

[VMRO]

When I initially read this I assumed that "Gocheva" instead of "Goceva" was a spelling error. However, having read some other sources, for example the report by Captain Evans from 1944, there is reference to a certain "Gotchi" (Goche), see below:

So it looks like the song may have been about this character's brigade as opposed to a brigade named in honour of Goce Delcev. it's been a while but I am sure I have read about this "Goche" some time ago.

Here is something i have on Ilija Dimovski-Goce, he was the legendary Macedonian Partizan commander from World War II & NOF.

Singleton Argus (NSW) - Friday 11 October 1946

REBEL BANDS UNITE IN GREECE - HEADQUARTERS IN YUGOSLAVIA
(AAP).

Documents captured by Greek gendarmerie, which the British authorities believe to be authentic, indicate that all the

Government armed bands operating in Northern Greece are under the control of a "commander-in-chief.'' His general headquarters are at Monastir, Yugoslavia, and his field headquarters hear Koritsa, Albania. Operating under the nom-de guerre of "Colonel Gotse," he has been identified as Ilias Dimakis, a Macedonian member of K.K.E. (the Greek Communist Party), who is believed to be in high favor with Marshal Tito, the Yugoslav Premier.— (A.A.P.).
-------------------
The Sydney Morning Herald (NSW) - Thursday 10 October 1946.

Greek Rebels Have H.Q. In Yugoslavia

FROM OUR STAFF CORRESPONDENT, IAN BEVAN.

SALONIKA, Oct. 9.-Documents captured by Greek gendar- merie, which the British authori- ties believe to be authentic, indicate that all the anti-Government armed bands operating in Northern Greece are under the control of a "commander-in-chief."

His general headquarters are at Monastir, Yugoslav, and his field headquarters near Koritsa, Albania.

Operating under the nom-de guerre of "Colonel Gotse," he has been identified as llias Dimakis, a Macedonian member of K.K.E. (the Greek Communist Party), who is believed' to be high in favour with Marshal Tito, the Yugoslav Premier.

Martial Law

From his headquarters, Dimakis controls supplies to the various armed bands, and co-ordinates their activities into an over-all plan nominally aimed at achieving auto- nomy for Macedonia, but more directly concerned with maintaining a state of unrest in Greece.

Northern Greece is unofficially under martial law, with all villages I under curfew from sunset to sunrise, and larger towns from mid- night to 6 a.m.

Despite widespread arrests of Communist sympathisers and the reinforcement of police and Army posts, the insurgents are still operating audaciously and successfully.

There is not yet civil war in Greece, but it is perilously close.

Army In Action .

The Greek Third Army of three divisions, which is stationed in Northern Greece, is expected to be reinforced soon by the Second Division of the First Army.

Even these reinforcements, how- ever, will be inadequate in this mountainous region, where it is estimated that it would take two full divisions 'effectively to patrol the Yugoslav frontier alone.

The insurgents are extremely well armed with machine-guns, light mortars and flame-throwers.

In the Gravina region they have attacked and either wiped out or forced the withdrawal of gendar- merie from 17 of the district's 18 posts.

Peasant Leader

Dimakis, the insurgent commander, was formerly a peasant farmer from a village near Kastoria (Macedonia).

Before joining ELAS (the Greek Left Wing resistance movement) he was leader of a band which operated under Ochrana, a movement aimed at annexing Macedonia to Bulgaria.

He took his band over to ELAS in 1943, and operated against the Germans, but fell foul of the Greek Communists in September, 1944, when he was forced to withdraw into Yugoslavia.

Marshal Tito's direct intervention restored him to favour with KKE (the Greek Communist Party).

[Soldier of Macedon]

Just in relation to my previous post above, this must be the Goche that the song refers to. The second paragraph is from the Bulgar wikipedia page so don't be surprised if there are distortions.

https://mk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%98%D0%BB%D0%B8%D1%98%D0%B0_%D0%94%D0%B8%D0%BC%D0%BE%D0%B2%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8_-_%D0%93%D0%BE%D1%87%D0%B5

Илија Димовски, познат со прекарот „Гоче“ е роден во селото Статица, Костурско во 1908 година. Македонски национален деец од Егејскиот дел на Македонија, борец за националните права на Македонците под Грција, учесник во ВМРО (об.) поради што е прогонуван и интерниран. Командант е на партизански одред и комесар на Леринско-костурскиот македонски баталјон во составот на ЕЛАС. Командант е и на Првата егејска ударна бригада и командант на баталјон на ДАГ. Носител е на партизанска споменица од 1941 година. Умрел во Скопје на 26 јуни 1961 година.

https://bg.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%98%D0%BB%D0%B8%D1%8F_%D0%94%D0%B8%D0%BC%D0%BE%D0%B2%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8

Илия Стефов Димовски, известен като Гоце (на македонска литературна норма: Илија Стефов Димовски - Гоце), е гръцки комунистически деец, участник в Гражданската война. Димовски е роден в 1908 година в село Статица, Костурско, тогава в Османската империя, днес Мелас, Гърция. Става член на ВМРО (обединена), заради което е преследван и интерниран. През Втората световна война е командир на партизански отряд и комисар на Леринско-костурския македонски батальон на ЕЛАС. В края на август 1944 година организира и участва в изтезанията и убийствата на българи от леринското село Прекопана и костурското Черешница край селските гробища в Поздивища. Българите са изправени пред прясно изкопан гроб, прегърнати извикват „Да живее България, България ке дойде!“, след което са застреляни с картечница, а Илия Димовски стреля с пистолет в главите им контролно.Командир е на Първата егейска ударна бригада[2][3] и на батальон на ДАГ в Гражданската война. След войната емигрира в Югославия. Умира в Скопие на 26 юни 1961 година.

[Vangelovski]

Cancel that - I just found it:

http://macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=7584&highlight=mitsotakis

I've asked this before. Thanks again EM

[Vangelovski]

There's a song that I've been trying to find for ages but I can't remember what its called or who wrote it. It came out in the early 90's, a patriotic one, something about the sonce waving in Solun, mentioned Mitsotakis by name (possibly also said something about his mother)...can't remember anything else only that I used to blast it through the whole street as a young fella. Anyone know the one I'm talking about?

[vicsinad]

Good find, SoM. I think the explanation you just offered is more likely.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Here is a short song about Vicho Planina. I don't have any recordings of it, just the lyrics and the notation:

Na Vicho ej Vicho Planina
I vo Pozdivskata Ramina
Ejj momi i momchina
Momi i momchina krenaja pushki na ramo
Da se bore za sloboda za Makedonija

Tamu e Gocheva brigada
I fashistite od neja stradaja
Ejj momi i momchina
Vo grada Lerina vleze Gocheva druzhina
Vo Kostura grada vleze Goceva brigada

When I initially read this I assumed that "Gocheva" instead of "Goceva" was a spelling error. However, having read some other sources, for example the report by Captain Evans from 1944, there is reference to a certain "Gotchi" (Goche), see below:

When in October 1944, Gotchi, as Capitanios and virtually commander of the 2nd Battalion of ELAS 28 Regt, was ordered to Vermion (Durla), he replied 'No, we are Macedonians and our place is here in Macedonia; that is what we are fighting for.' (Vermion is of course in Macedonia but it is I believe less Slav than the region of Vitsi where Gotchi's battalion was then stationed and where he had recruited it in the first place; and Gotchi's patridha is Vitsi). He then mutinied and went to Prespa, and later to Monastir (Bitola], his battalion with him.

So it looks like the song may have been about this character's brigade as opposed to a brigade named in honour of Goce Delcev. it's been a while but I am sure I have read about this "Goche" some time ago.

[vicsinad]

Correction: the book was published in the 1970s.

[vicsinad]

It's from a book that was compiled in the 1960s. I haven't heard it either (except for playing it), but the chorus is a nice little melody. I also found it on my uncle's website (for which the link has been posted a few times before):

http://www.pelister.org/folklore/songs/pdf/0022.pdf

[DraganOfStip]

Didn't some Macedonian fighters from the WWII period name their brigades after earlier revolutionaries?

Ah,that makes more sense.
I thought it was Goce Delcev and his fighters (Goceva brigada), but it was just a brigade named after him.
My bad,I haven't heard this song before.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Goceva brigada i fashisti?
Avtoro gi ima zgreseno apcinjata izgleda

Didn't some Macedonian fighters from the WWII period name their brigades after earlier revolutionaries?