Time to acknowldge and accept both communities

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  • Alexander Downer
    Junior Member
    • Oct 2008
    • 9

    Time to acknowldge and accept both communities

    Yasou fellow Christian Orthodox Brothers,

    At the very least, putting aside the name issues surrounding country, people, orthodox church etc., consider each other as Christian orthodox brothers. No one can deny this.

    My background is traced to a beautiful Island that gave birth to Lesbians, called Lesbos. I grew up in a small town in South Australia and in my very early childhood, I grew up with a beautiful neighbor, a Macedonian family. They would come to our Greek service in an Anglican church. There was no orthodox churches. We didn’t know there was a Macedonian issue. Well my parents certainly didn’t. I later learnt from my mum that they were Macedonian from Yugoslavia (when it was still around). The point I want to make, taking away the backgrounds, we still had a common bond, and that was the Orthodox faith.

    Now that I am older and wiser, my personal belief and its my opinion only, that there are definitely two strands of the Macedonian issue that BOTH sides need to acknowledge and accept. We can at least agree that there two sides to this matter and no one should have a monopoly over it.

    I can only go by what the historians/scholars have published and there is no doubt that there is a connection with Macedonia with ancient Hellenic world. People have since come and gone, moved on, displaced, adopted languages, customs and religions and we are what we are today. The Greeks need to get around their mindset and accept that there is a community that speaks a different language and identifies with the region of Macedonian. I continuously read that Greece only recently changed the name of their northern province in the late eighties to Macedonia. I really do not know the background to this, but if just pull out like I did last night, the World Encyclopedia (circa 1980), it clearly shows under Greece the Macedonian region. These topics simply spit hairs.

    One of my personal gripes is the term we use to call my mother country Greece and being called Greeks. It pisses me off that the English world can not accept that its real name is Ellada (Hellas) and we are Ellines (Hellenic) and I would love to see these names used commonly. Where am I going with this. Good question. If we can agree that BOTH sets of communities exist, we can try to find a common ground that does not compromising who we are.

    So my layman suggestion is that today’s community who are from and affiliated with the Republic of Macedonia, to not change its name but to simply change how the English world pronounces the republic in your language:

    - Makedonska Republika,
    - Makedontsi for your people,
    - Makedonski for your language
    - refer to Greece as the Hellenic Republic and its northern province as Makedonia

    This would at least retain the status quo through our own pronunciations and differentiate our two communities.

    Take care
    Last edited by Alexander Downer; 10-16-2008, 08:57 PM.
  • MapleLeaf1
    Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 114

    #2
    Makedonska Republika,
    - Makedontsi for your people,
    - Makedonski for your language
    - refer to Greece as the Hellenic Republic and its northern province as Makedonia
    Ive got a better idea Bru....I mean Alexander...
    -Macedonia
    -Macedonians
    -Macedonian
    -Grchka Republika, Egejska Makedonija

    Comment

    • osiris
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 1969

      #3
      for a minute there i got all excited i thought , what alexander downer has slipped out of his fish stockings to post his wisdom ona macedonian forum. alas it was not the sth australian ex foreign minister, no it was in fact a lesbian offering his deal to macedonians.

      so my lesbian fellow orthodox christian, yasoo paidi mou, kalos irthess edo ston maknews.

      now listen carefully because i dont want to have to keep stating the obvious. a human right is when the person in question decides who he is. its not something negoitable,or bestowable.

      all of us on this forum by now have a pretty good idea who the modern hellenes are, thats why sometimes we lovingly call you arvanovlachs. yet we still accpet you as greeks, its time you afforded us this right we dont ever deny you.

      then we can all move on and live in the 21st century and not at the fall of tsarigrad. there are some very important ssues we all face as human beings living on planet earth.

      so if you have any influence within your greek community mr downer from the beaustiful ilsand of lesbos, learn this lesson about human rights well, teach your fellow neo greeks to stop denying others the right you so passionately defend for yourselves, the neo greeks the wanabe hellenes the renamers of turkish coffee.
      Last edited by osiris; 10-16-2008, 09:57 PM.

      Comment

      • Venom
        Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 445

        #4
        Alex: You're a fucking idiot.

        How about greeks don't pretend to be something their not, something they only became after the 80's?

        Once again: You're a fucking idiot.
        S m r t - i l i - S l o b o d a

        Comment

        • Risto the Great
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 15658

          #5
          ADD,
          clearly you only have your childhood memories to assist you with your formulation of a name policy. It is a shame.

          I am not sure if you have been to Lesbos. I have. You can smell the rich Turkish history there. Hey, you can even get to Turkey with a ferry ride for not much more money than the cost of a Turkish Coffee.

          One day, when you move out of your little South Australian town ... you might meet some real Macedonians from what is now Greece. You might meet me for example ... and I will show you exactly who the real Macedonians of Greece are.
          Risto the Great
          MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
          "Holding my breath for the revolution."

          Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

          Comment

          • Svoliani
            Banned
            • Sep 2008
            • 93

            #6
            "I really do not know the background to this, but if just pull out like I did last night, the World Encyclopedia (circa 1980), it clearly shows under Greece the Macedonian region."

            Re File, My encyclopedia is older (1974) and it said the same thing.
            But hey heres a tip, what you heard from your great grandfather while sitting on his lap as a little boy takes precedence of what is written in books!

            And Osiris , where on earth is Tsarigrad??? City of Kings?
            We are in 2008 Osiris, razbudi bre

            Comment

            • Alexander Downer
              Junior Member
              • Oct 2008
              • 9

              #7
              actually I live in Adelaide and I have been to Lesbos on many occassions and seen every inch of the island. Risto, your one of the wiser and level headed people I've noticed on your forum.
              I am dissappointed that you made the Turkish statement towards my Island. My Grand Father was born in Asia Minor and lost his entire family in 1922. I know what it is like to lose familiy and land. I did not come to the forum to get abused and be called names. Cut me some slack and not cast stones to all Hellenes.

              Comment

              • Philosopher
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 1003

                #8
                Alexander,

                Your speech is typical of modern Hellenes. First, you deny there is a Macedonia; then you claim it as your own; and finally when you realize that the Republic of Macedonia and Macedonians are not going to give up the name, you argue that both Greeks and Macedonians should call themselves Macedonians.

                But here comes the .9999% rat poison: the ancient Macedonians were Greeks, because that's what all the experts say. And, Macedonians should modify their name.

                Good endeavor; however, unlike yourself, we are all quite knowledgable of the history and of the issue and I think I speak for all Macedonians when I say this: there is ONLY ONE MACEDONIA AND THAT IS THE REPUBLIC OF MACEDONIA!!!

                Orthodox Brotherhood may sound good but where have our Orthodox Brothers been when Macedonia was raped by her Orthodox friends Greece, Bulgaria, and Serbia in 1913 at the Treaty of Bulcharest?

                Where have our Orthodox Friend Greece been when it has denied ethnic Macedonians from hearing divine service in their own MACEDONIAN TONGUE in modern day Greece? What has Orthododx Greece done for Macedonia except terrorize her, shame her, and deny her most basic, fundamental rights?

                Comment

                • osiris
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 1969

                  #9
                  may be i should use its modern name instanbul.

                  but then it just wouldnt have the 15th century flavour i was evoking, would it svoliani heroic hellenic warrior.

                  Comment

                  • Traveller
                    Banned
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 177

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Venom View Post
                    Alex: You're a fucking idiot.

                    How about greeks don't pretend to be something their not, something they only became after the 80's?
                    Once again: You're a fucking idiot.
                    Stop that nonsense. We were always identifying ourselves as Macedonians. Or at least for 4,000 years. The newspaper i am reading in Thessaloniki circulated in 1911 and its name is "MAKEDONIA". Not to mention our folk songs etc.

                    Comment

                    • Dejan
                      Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 589

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Traveller View Post
                      Stop that nonsense. We were always identifying ourselves as Macedonians. Or at least for 4,000 years. The newspaper i am reading in Thessaloniki circulated in 1911 and its name is "MAKEDONIA". Not to mention our folk songs etc.
                      Makedonci, aren't you sick of hearing this from christian settlers? Throw this garbage out ve molam!

                      I think we're way past trying to prove who we are
                      You want Macedonia? Come and take it from my blood!

                      A prosperous, independent and free Macedonia for Macedonians will be the ultimate revenge to our enemies.

                      Comment

                      • Traveller
                        Banned
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 177

                        #12
                        Mr Downer. After the Nimit's proposal in a poll in Greece 63 % of the people rejected "North Macedonia". Greek people will hung (metaphorically) the political leadership who will accept the term Macedonia in our neighbour's name. So your proposal for Makedonska republika is ludicrous...North Macedonia is a sacrifice for the Greek people which is causing much pain to us. i think that this will be finally the name and then the goverment after North Macedonia will be verified in the UN security council will collapse .

                        Comment

                        • Risto the Great
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 15658

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Alexander Downer View Post
                          actually I live in Adelaide and I have been to Lesbos on many occassions and seen every inch of the island. Risto, your one of the wiser and level headed people I've noticed on your forum.
                          I am dissappointed that you made the Turkish statement towards my Island. My Grand Father was born in Asia Minor and lost his entire family in 1922. I know what it is like to lose familiy and land. I did not come to the forum to get abused and be called names. Cut me some slack and not cast stones to all Hellenes.
                          Can you tell me what happened to the Turks of Lesbos, AD?
                          Sounds like a tit for tat exercise to me.
                          You are right about the wiser and level headed part ... why do you think I have departed from my normal approach when I made my earlier statements to you. We are all highly intelligent from Adelaide ... surely you do not feel connected to Lesbos? It was merely a blip in your family's history.
                          Risto the Great
                          MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                          "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                          Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                          Comment

                          • Risto the Great
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 15658

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Traveller View Post
                            Stop that nonsense. We were always identifying ourselves as Macedonians. Or at least for 4,000 years. The newspaper i am reading in Thessaloniki circulated in 1911 and its name is "MAKEDONIA". Not to mention our folk songs etc.
                            4000 years, that is impressive.
                            Moreso from someone who confesses to not knowing anything about history.
                            Why not 10,000 years ... it sounds even more impressive.

                            Can you show me any of the christian imports from Turkey who called themselves Macedonian BEFORE arriving to Macedonia in the 1920's? They are most likely the majority now and just like Alexander Downer's people who proudly claim Lesbos after a few years ... these ones own Macedonia now it would seem . Any local Greeks in Macedonia would not have dreamed of calling themselves Macedonian at the turn of the 1900's. The 2% of the Macedonian region that were Greeks proudly called themselves Greeks. Perhaps you should have some respect for your own identity and stop obsessing with the Macedonian one.
                            Risto the Great
                            MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                            "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                            Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                            Comment

                            • Pelister
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 2742

                              #15
                              I don't buy it Alexander Downer.

                              The Hellenizing of Macedonia is still happening, and until that is brought into the light, acknowledged, and redressed - I'm afraid Greece will continue being the racist, chauvanistic people, they generally are - and Macedonians in Greece will continue to have their history, heritge and culture, robbed from them in broad daylight - while Europe watches benignly like the soft-cock bureacrats and racists that they are.

                              In Greece, minorities are not accepted, not recognized. There are no language services, no welfare - no education available to minorities in their native language - I mean what kind of fascist, racist state is this place.

                              In Australia - I can walk into Centrelink, and get a translator of any language I prefer to use. This basic facility is not available in "democratic" Greece. The Greeks are liars - the lie about their economy to the E.U - they lie about who lives there - they lie about everything.

                              Your not Christians, thats for sure.

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