Census' in the Republic of Macedonia

[Daskalot]

2002 Census, Blurring the ethnic makeup

Friday, 14 August 2009

There is an increased discussion today of the validity of the 2002 Macedonian census. The 7 year old census was done under questionable circumstances, a year after NATO/EU pressured Macedonia to sign the Framework Agreement which put an end to the 2001 fighting.

The Framework agreement called for giving rights to minorities who comprise 25% of the population.

The census numbers itself were delayed for weeks. Normally they are released the following day. The validity of the census was questioned even more after the numbers were released, though without the information for the ethnic makeup of the population.
When the ethnic makeup percentage was finally released the man in charge of the State Electoral Commission, Zoran Krstevski quickly resigned, while the director of the SEC Blagica Novkovska was fired.

- Indeed I resigned. I didn’t resign for political reasons, but because the census numbers were flawed, says Krstevski seven years later.

Census numbers
From the 2002 census, Macedonia has a total of 2.02 million. 64.18% are Macedonians, 25.17% are Albanians, 3.85% Turks, 2.66 Roma etc.
According to the 2002 census, since 1994, each year until 02’ ethnic Albanians had had 68,000 children annually, while ethnic Macedonians had only 250 ?!
Most Macedonian media saw the census as fixed by the international community to satisfy the Framework Agreement relaying that the maximum number of Albanians is projected at 17-18% of the population.

Election Numbers
During 2008/09 elections, the EU as well as Macedonian and ironically enough Albanian political parties admitted major faults with the number of registered voters.
Macedonia has 503,962 children. Therefore, according to the 2002 census, there should be 1.541.215 registered voters. However, there are 1.792.867 voters, thus creating a difference of 250,867 voters who are extra. Where do this 250,867 people fit?

The answer lies in the next census scheduled for 2011, of course if in meantime there isn’t a call for a new Framework agreement.

http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/7856/1/

We need to get to the bottom of this.

[Risto the Great]

Bring on 2011!
And lets keep the USA out of it.

[Soldier of Macedon]

2011 isn't that far away, let's hope the results don't become tainted. We are the only country among our neighbours (apart from Serbia in most instances) that afford the courtesy of self-identity to our minorities. The whole Balkans should undergo a comprehensive census to see who lives where now.

[Pelister]

The Macedonians have to invest more government money into conducting the next census themselves - that means closer government monitoring.

They can also work towards better intelligence, and better record gathering and retrieval, better identification, duplication and forgeries of Macedonian citizenship.

After rejecting the negotiations, conducting a fair and impartial census (no foriegn interference), is the next most important thing on the list I believe.

It had never occured to me that the results might be manipulated.

[I of Macedon]

Albanian parties increasingly nervous - Census

The Albanian political parties in Macedonia show increasing signs of nervousness as the new census is approaching. It's not only the parties in the opposition, it's also DUI which is part of the ruling coalition.

The issue which has gained traction in the last couple of months has seen DUI and ND request more ethnic Albanians be employed in the State Statistical Office thinking this will contribute to the SSO counting more 'Albanians'.

The reason for this request is that ethnic Albanians who publicly state their disloyalty towards Macedonia are afraid they would lose ministerial and other government positions as well as put the Ohrid Framework agreement in jeopardy if they fail to reach 25% of the total population.

Census experts state if the 2011 census goes smoothly, ethnic Albanians may look realistically into 16 to 17% of the total Macedonian population. The previous census was cited as fraudulent by members of Government, including the head of the SSO. In it, ethnic Albanians doubled their number from 12 to 25% within few years. The SSO head prior to his resignation gave details of ethnic Albanian villages numbering 200 people, reporting as having 1,400.

More details of fraud and its magnitude came during the last general elections when out of 2 million population, an incredible 1.82 million were registered as having the right to vote, meaning Macedonia has almost no children. This discrepancy (fraud) was noted by the EU as well.

DUI is expected to push for new general elections if VMRO doesn't agree to come up with the magical 25%, just like the SDSM did years ago. DUI members also publicly have acknowledged, they enjoyed more being in a colaition with the SDSM because they were able to 'run things' without oversight.

http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/13527/45/

[Risto the Great]

The census is extremely important and needs to be reconciled with the voting anomalies highlighted above.

[fyrOM]

Go Gruevski. Bit by bit. He is very mythological. And then there were none in parliament.

[Soldier of Macedon]

The sooner this is carried out and the results published, the better. There is no way that ethnic Albanians hold 25% of the population, now there is less pressure and opportunities for manipulation, let's bring it on. This part of the article attracts most attention:

The reason for this request is that ethnic Albanians who publicly state their disloyalty towards Macedonia are afraid they would lose ministerial and other government positions as well as put the Ohrid Framework agreement in jeopardy if they fail to reach 25% of the total population.

[Jankovska]

It must be under control. We must see the true numbers./

[Volk]

The census will either be forged, number not disclosed or that magic number (25%) will be removed completely, meaning Macedonia will be completely bi-national so it avoids internal conflict.

Hope I am wrong

[Prolet]

Volk, Od sega natamu druga pesna ke se pee

They cant go around fooling everyone anymore, lets not forget that Turks,Gjupci and Torbeshi were classified as Albanians which they are not. If DUI are not happy then its a good indication that Grujo is doing something right, i remember Rogi once saying that he was very disappointed to find out that VMRO made a coalition with DUI i think the exact opposite, if you dont want to loose control of somebody you have to keep them under control in order to control them so the old saying keep your friends close keep your enemies closer is exactly the case in this instance.

The thing about SDSM is that they gave DUI anything they wanted and it was an easy ride while VMRO stood their ground and on the contrary put pressure on DUI for its ministers to come up with the goods, Bujar Osmani the Minister for Health is a perfect example of that.

[Mastika]

It must be under control. We must see the true numbers./

I agree with you completely. However, we will not see true numbers if people do not write down in the census their actual ethnicity. I am talking specifically about ethnic Macedonian Muslims. The majority of these people do not write down that they are in fact ethnically Macedonian and Muslim in the religion question. In fact, the majority are "ethnically" Turkish or Albanian, with others writing down Bosnians or simply Muslim.

One specific examples is the village of Labunista, Strusko. Apparently it has a population of 5,936 (in itself seems to be inflated) and is a purely Macedonian village (~95% Muslim, ~5% Orthodox). According to the 2002 census the population had 4,288 Albanians, 879 Turks, 371 Macedonians, 31 Bosnians and 362 "Others" (presumably "Muslims")!?!?!?! And then figures such as these are meant to be accepted as the "truth". The same is true for countless of other Macedonian Muslim villages (Struga- Boroec, Oktisi, Podgorci. Debar - Otisani, Mogorce. Virtually all of Centar Zupa except for the 6 villages which are actually Turkish. Mavrovo/Rostusa- Skudrinje, Rostusa, Velebrdo, Trebiste, Vidusa, Zirovnica. Tetovo- Urvic, Jelovjane (Goranski sela). Kicevsko- Plasnica, Dvorci, Iziste, Srbjani, Celopeci. Prespa- Kozjak. Prilepsko pole- Trnovce, Debreste, Lazani, Jakrenovo. Torbesija- Drzilovo, Batinci, Kolicani, Cvetovo, Elovo, Pagarusa. + East Macedonia)

The issue here that the majority of these people are not listing themselves as ethnically Macedonian for differing reasons. Was UMD not running a campaign to get people to declare Macedonian in the American census? Well the same needs to happe in Macedonia, a group of Macedonian Muslims needs to present this on the table. Fijat Canoski would be the perfect candidate to do this. I am surprised that such an initiave hasnt been started yet.

[sf.]

The sooner this is carried out and the results published, the better. There is no way that ethnic Albanians hold 25% of the population, no there is less pressure and opportunities for manipulation, let's bring it on. This part of the article attracts most attention:

The reason for this request is that ethnic Albanians who publicly state their disloyalty towards Macedonia are afraid they would lose ministerial and other government positions as well as put the Ohrid Framework agreement in jeopardy if they fail to reach 25% of the total population.

Wouldn't it be ironic if the Albanians threaten the Framework Agreement? Hopefully (one never knows) the Government has a strategy to deal with these possibilities.

[fyrOM]

So if it is found the Albanians in Macedonia are less than 25 percent the Ohrid agreement is over.

[Pelister]

If Albanians number less than 25% there are parts of that "Treaty" (on that was forced upon us by 'the West') that are no longer valid.

I am eagerly awaiting the results, but I suspect that the Albanians will find a way to spoil it. They always do. They will either flood the region with Kosovars, or manipulate the results some how. I don't trust them.