Macedonian Truth Forum   

Go Back   Macedonian Truth Forum > Macedonian Truth Forum > Macedonian History

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-26-2012, 09:59 AM   #1
TrueMacedonian
Senior Member
 
TrueMacedonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,799
TrueMacedonian will become famous soon enough
Default Macedonian proto-nationalism

If anyone has ever read Eric Hobsbawm's "Nations and Nationalism since 1780" you may have read about his take on proto-nationalism. Here's some sentences regarding proto-nationalism.

Quote:
ďWhy and how could a concept so remote from the real experience of most human beings as Ďnational patriotismí become such a powerful political force so quickly?......

You cannot point to the natural communities (families, villages, etc.) familiar to all humans throughout time, because nations differ from these in size, scale and nature. They are, as Benedict Anderson put it, imagined communities.......

However, perhaps there are certain communal sentiments that lend themselves ideally to being converted to or marshaled in favour of, nationalism. Call these proto-national sentiments, and they can either be supra-local (that is, uniting disparate communities, like belief in the Virgin Mary), or springing from local political communities.......

So what does constitute proto-nationalism? This is a difficult question to answer because it must be located in the minds of the illiterate, because it is a popular sentiment, and before the 20th century, the vast majority of mankind was illiterate.

Interesting. And how do we explain the village of Macedonia in the Timis region of Romania from the 14th century which to this day is indeed inhabited by a Macedonian minority?

http://www.proetnica.ro/en/22/macedonians.html

Quote:
The Macedonians from Romania are a Slavic, Orthodox population that came from Macedonia`s territory in several migration waves starting with the eleventh century. The Macedonians are a recognized national minority in Romania since 2000. The Macedonia village (Timis county) is one of the first Macedonian settlements in Romania, documented by Catholic Church records in 1332-1337 under the name of Machadonia.
and still further information


page 160

__________________
Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!
TrueMacedonian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2012, 03:40 PM   #2
George S.
Senior Member
 
George S.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 10,121
George S. is on a distinguished road
Default

amazing find as usual TM congrats.Very intersting read.
__________________
"Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
GOTSE DELCEV
George S. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2018, 02:56 AM   #3
Liberator of Makedonija
Member
 
Liberator of Makedonija's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Australia
Posts: 776
Liberator of Makedonija is on a distinguished road
Default

bump...........
__________________
I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.
Liberator of Makedonija is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2018, 08:58 AM   #4
TrueMacedonian
Senior Member
 
TrueMacedonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,799
TrueMacedonian will become famous soon enough
Default

Bump. Post coincides with the Smyrna Clerk discussions of nationalism.
__________________
Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!
TrueMacedonian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2018, 06:10 PM   #5
VMRO
Senior Member
 
VMRO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,134
VMRO has much to be proud ofVMRO has much to be proud ofVMRO has much to be proud ofVMRO has much to be proud ofVMRO has much to be proud ofVMRO has much to be proud ofVMRO has much to be proud ofVMRO has much to be proud ofVMRO has much to be proud of
Default

If anyone wants the book by Eric Hobsbaw - "Nations and Nationalism since 1780"

I have it in pdf.
__________________
Verata vo Mislite, VMRO vo dushata, Makedonia vo Srceto.

Vnatreshna Makedonska Revolucionerna Organizacija.
VMRO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2018, 01:58 AM   #6
Liberator of Makedonija
Member
 
Liberator of Makedonija's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Australia
Posts: 776
Liberator of Makedonija is on a distinguished road
Default

To go off the write-up: There are numerous examples of Macedonian proto-nationalism which have been evidenced in this forum multiple times. I believe it may have been Victor Friedman (those who know him will know he is incredibly knowledgable about Macedonia) that estimated modern Macedonian nationalism to have began to develop around the 1860s.
__________________
I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.
Liberator of Makedonija is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2018, 12:00 PM   #7
TrueMacedonian
Senior Member
 
TrueMacedonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,799
TrueMacedonian will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liberator of Makedonija View Post
To go off the write-up: There are numerous examples of Macedonian proto-nationalism which have been evidenced in this forum multiple times. I believe it may have been Victor Friedman (those who know him will know he is incredibly knowledgable about Macedonia) that estimated modern Macedonian nationalism to have began to develop around the 1860s.
Iím in disagreement. I donít think you can point to a timeframe as I believe it is even earlier than 1860.

Exhibit A:

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...ead.php?t=1204


Exhibit B:

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...ead.php?t=1287
__________________
Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!
TrueMacedonian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2018, 11:45 PM   #8
Liberator of Makedonija
Member
 
Liberator of Makedonija's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Australia
Posts: 776
Liberator of Makedonija is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueMacedonian View Post
Iím in disagreement. I donít think you can point to a timeframe as I believe it is even earlier than 1860.

Exhibit A:

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...ead.php?t=1204


Exhibit B:

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...ead.php?t=1287

I agree, you can't put an exact date on things like this. Friedman never provided evidence as to why he suggested the 1860s, its possible this was merely a passing rough estimate or when he believed the existence of a Macedonian identity by this point was undenaible. The earliest reference to "Macedonianism" is from the 1860s I believe.
__________________
I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.
Liberator of Makedonija is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2018, 01:00 AM   #9
Carlin15
Member
 
Carlin15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Canada
Posts: 560
Carlin15 is on a distinguished road
Default




Carlin15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2018, 02:16 AM   #10
Liberator of Makedonija
Member
 
Liberator of Makedonija's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Australia
Posts: 776
Liberator of Makedonija is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlin15 View Post



Very curious how the Bulgarian philism differs from Macedo-Bulgarianism? My guess would be the philism saw the Macedonians completely as Bulgarians and sought the integration of Macedonia into Bulgaria. Whilst Maceo-Bulgarianism could just be very Pro-Exarchist and whilst close with Buglaria, wished for Macedonia to be its own state.

No shock that "Macedonianism" intensified post-1870, the Exarchate can blame themselves for that one.
__________________
I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.
Liberator of Makedonija is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
macedonia, macedonians, machadonia, romania, timis


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump