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Daskalot
01-05-2009, 06:07 PM
Isnt this strange?

What does a Sclavonic general do in the Byzantine Empire? Obviously he must have been a Roman citizen to become this, how did he manage this when he was just about to run down to the Balkans from the Pripet marshes to slaughter all of the native inhabitants of the southern Balkans...... strange is it not?

Page 479.
http://www.macedoniantruth.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/a-dictionary-of-greek-and-roman-biography-and-mythology-479.png

Source: A Dictionary of Greek and Roman Biography and Mythology
By William Smith, 1880, page 479.

Soldier of Macedon
01-06-2009, 08:02 AM
Slovak, I would like your opinion on this proposed etymology for Belisarius. Could a variant of the word (t)sar have been used prior to the 10th century in Slavic languages?

Wikipedia states:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belisarius#cite_note-0
The hypothesis that he was of Romanized Slavic ancestry, on the grounds that his name is somewhat similar to the Slavic "Beli Tsar" ("White Prince"), has been rejected by contemporary historians, as the word tsar was first used in the 10th century, well after Belisarius' death. Whether the sar- particle nevertheless derives from "Caesar" (as does "Tsar"), or from the earlier etymological roots (sar is "king"/"prince"/"ruler" in various older Semitic languages) is not attested.

Delodephius
01-06-2009, 09:18 AM
I heard about the hypothesis that the word "car" [tsar] is older and did not come down to Slavonic from the Caesar or Kesar, that it is of an older IE origin and in fact it originates from the same root that forms a part of the very name Caesar. I think it meant "head", as in leader or ruler. In Sanskrit head is "śir", in English we have a word "sir", and in Slavonic "car"- Tzar. It also reminds of the Sanskrit word for the Sun - "sūrya" and in Slavonic "zora", as the Sun was the highest authority and deity in the ancient world it could be connected to the meaning of "emperor" or the highest of human authorities.

Similarly, it is today believe that the Slavonic word for king - kral, korol, kralj, krľ, etc. derives from the name of Charlemagne - Karl, in English Charles. But I think it could be of a much older origin deriving from something like the root *kar - "to rule", "to smite". There are no words for a ruler or king in any Slavic language that derive from the IE root *h₃reǵ- (Lat. regere, Gk. ὀρέγω (oregō), Eng. riht/right, Gm. reht/recht, ON rttr, Goth. raihts, Thrac. rhesus, Toch. rk/rk, Arm. arcvi/ardzvi;
*H₃rēǵ-(H₃n-) / "ruler, king": Skr. राजन् (rājan), Oscan regaturei, Lat. rēx, Gaul. rīx, Ir. rg/rgh, Welsh rhi, Av. raz, Pers. rahst, Alb. radh), unless borrowed, but I couldn't find anything on *kar, so I won't go any further on that.

Soldier of Macedon
01-06-2009, 06:49 PM
Thanks buddy, that's an interesting perspective.

Pelister
01-06-2009, 11:28 PM
Slovak, I would like your opinion on this proposed etymology for Belisarius. Could a variant of the word (t)sar have been used prior to the 10th century in Slavic languages?

Wikipedia states:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belisarius#cite_note-0

I don't like this explanation given on Wiki.

Given that the morphology and etymology of Caesar, Tsar and Sarius are so close, I would say there has to be a connection there. So it doesn't make much sense to say the term 'Tsar' first appeared in the 10th century. If Tsar is a variant of Caesar or even Sarius and it is very possible then the term has far deeper roots.

Soldier of Macedon
01-06-2009, 11:31 PM
I guess I was playing devil's advocate for a bit, but it always pays to look at both sides of the story, regardless of how baseless they can be. I like Slovak's little piece of information, it sounds credible.

Soldier of Macedon
01-06-2009, 11:31 PM
Are there any attempts for a Latin etymology for this name?

Pelister
01-06-2009, 11:41 PM
I guess I was playing devil's advocate for a bit, but it always pays to look at both sides of the story, regardless of how baseless they can be. I like Slovak's little piece of information, it sounds credible.

I agree, Thanks for that.

All possibilities need to come out. Its better for everyone that way.

Sarafot
01-07-2009, 07:21 AM
Probebly Duan Silni was first who was called CAR,Slovenians use CESAR for king or kralj?

TrueMacedonian
01-13-2009, 10:47 PM
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s43/truemacedonian/justiniansflea.jpg
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s43/truemacedonian/justiniansflea129.jpg

Pelister
01-13-2009, 10:55 PM
I was under the impression that Justinian built many Churches in Macedonia where the language of liturgy, writing and literature was not in Latin, but in Macedonian.

Delodephius
01-14-2009, 01:02 AM
That happened four centuries later.

Soldier of Macedon
03-14-2009, 08:15 PM
Probebly Dušan Silni was first who was called CAR,Slovenians use CESAR for king or kralj?
Khan Boris of Bulgaria was the first to use it in the form of TSAR during the 9th century, after accepting the Slavic language and Christian faith as official for his state.

Here is more literature regarding the Illyro-Slavic origins of Belisarius.

The Life of Belisarius, Lord Mahon, 1848, Preface.

http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/3043/91436133.png (http://img25.imageshack.us/my.php?image=91436133.png)

Soldier of Macedon
03-14-2009, 08:34 PM
http://www.experiencefestival.com/a/Belisarius/id/1929873
Belisarius was probably born in Germane or Germania, a city that once stood on the site of present day Sapareva Banya in south-west Bulgaria. Some suggest that he was of Romanized Slavic ancestry, on the grounds that his name is somewhat similar to the Slavic "Beli Tsar" ("White Prince"), but most contemporary historians disregard this theory as the word tsar was first used in the 10th century, well after Belisarius' death.
This is what they base their rejection on, but if we take into consideration Slovak's elaboration above, it makes for a good discussion. I am sure that I have seen in Slavic writings words such as Cesar or Kesar, which means that Tsar could be from an individual strain yet ultimately from the same common origin with the former.

It is very interesting to note the repeated Slavic connection made to the two great figures Justinian and Belisarius.

Soldier of Macedon
03-14-2009, 08:45 PM
Some more links citing the Slavic connection.

http://www.heritage-history.com/www/heritage.php?R_menu=OFF&Dir=characters&FileName=belisarius.php
Belisarius, who is thought to be of Slavic origin, began his career in the Roman army as a bodyguard of Justinian.

http://www.economicexpert.com/a/Belisarius.htm
Belisarius was born in Germane, Illyria (modern day Yugoslavia), though we are not sure of the exact date. His family was Slavic in nature, but had lived inside the Empire for a century and were fully Romanized; his name (Beli Tsar) apparently meant "White Prince" in Slavic.

http://www.hyperhistory.net/apwh/bios/b2belisarius.htm
No one knows for sure where Belisarius was born, but many experts believe he was born in Germania, an area near Macedonia and Illyria1 (Yugoslavia)2 He was born in 505 AD. As with many people of that age, little is known about Belisarius' childhood. He appears to have been fully Romanized, but his name also seems to mean White Prince in Slavic.

http://www.mountainlilypress.com/Romance%20Library/historical6a.html
Of Slavic background himself, Belisarius is open to all the influences available to him in a multicultural empire.

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=fSvlaZYbcwUC&pg=PA175&lpg=PA175&dq=belisarius,+slavic+origin&source=bl&ots=89n4UGViJR&sig=5my5YLZStL77CK0yfZAVT1kn2g4&hl=en&ei=8Fy8SZi-OJmMsQOs-oFA&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=7&ct=result

------------------------------------------


Another interesting point is the fact that the Slavic invaders from the Danube areas expanded their power greatly during the reign of Justinian and Belisarius.

Delodephius
03-15-2009, 07:52 AM
Slovak: cisr
Czech: cisař
Polish: cesarz
Slovenian: cesar
Serbo-Croatian: car
Bulgarian: цар
Macedonian: цар
Ukrainian: цар
Russian: цар
Belorusian: цар
Old Church Slavonic: кѣсар҄ь, цѣсар҄ь

Soldier of Macedon
03-16-2009, 02:09 AM
Slovak: cisr
Czech: cisař
Polish: cesarz
Slovenian: cesar
Serbo-Croatian: car
Bulgarian: цар
Macedonian: цар
Ukrainian: цар
Russian: цар
Belorusian: цар
Old Church Slavonic: кѣсар҄ь, цѣсар҄ь
Slovak, what is your opinion on the name and the person of Belisarius, were they of a group related to the Slavic-speaking people?

TrueMacedonian
03-16-2009, 10:32 PM
I have another question as well. Was Belisarius (or Velicar) Dardanian?

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s43/truemacedonian/darwinism.png
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s43/truemacedonian/darwinism236.png

Illyrian?

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s43/truemacedonian/barker.png
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s43/truemacedonian/barker75.png

Thracian?

http://www.historynet.com/gothic-war-byzantine-count-belisarius-retakes-rome.htm/2

Coming from a Thracian family, Belisarius had served in the corps of bodyguards of Emperor Justin, Justinians uncle and predecessor, before distinguishing himself as a general.


Or Macedonian?

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s43/truemacedonian/Miscellanius%20Mak%20Stuff/storyofrome.png
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s43/truemacedonian/Miscellanius%20Mak%20Stuff/storyofrome134.png

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s43/truemacedonian/Miscellanius%20Mak%20Stuff/ita.png
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s43/truemacedonian/Miscellanius%20Mak%20Stuff/ita11.png


Could it be that Velicar was a Macedonian?

TrueMacedonian
03-16-2009, 11:01 PM
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s43/truemacedonian/Miscellanius%20Mak%20Stuff/cambridge.png
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s43/truemacedonian/Miscellanius%20Mak%20Stuff/cambridge3.png

Some say Illyrian. Others Thracian. And some Macedonian. What do you guys think?

Soldier of Macedon
03-17-2009, 03:16 AM
Good sources.

Thracian, Illyrian, Macedonian - all cut from the same cloth. The areas where Justinian and Belisarius originate have been considered all of the above on various occasions. I am of the opinion that these two figures were of a people that spoke a language akin to the Slavic tongue along and north of the Danube, from where the Slavic tribes attacked and invaded the East Roman emperor. The 'Dardanian' area spoken of falls within the territory of the Macedonian Republic and ethnic Macedonian regions.

Soldier of Macedon
03-17-2009, 03:19 AM
All and none, but most accurately as either Illyrian or/and Macedonian. See:

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=13749#post13749

Po-drum
03-17-2009, 03:13 PM
Similarly, it is today believe that the Slavonic word for king - kral, korol, kralj, krľ, etc. derives from the name of Charlemagne - Karl, in English Charles. But I think it could be of a much older origin deriving from something like the root *kar - "to rule", "to smite". There are no words for a ruler or king in any Slavic language that derive from the IE root *h₃reǵ- (Lat. regere, Gk. ὀρέγω (oregō), Eng. riht/right, Gm. reht/recht, ON rttr, Goth. raihts, Thrac. rhesus, Toch. rk/rk, Arm. arcvi/ardzvi;
*H₃rēǵ-(H₃n-) / "ruler, king": Skr. राजन् (rājan), Oscan regaturei, Lat. rēx, Gaul. rīx, Ir. rg/rgh, Welsh rhi, Av. raz, Pers. rahst, Alb. radh), unless borrowed, but I couldn't find anything on *kar, so I won't go any further on that.

Regarding *kar - I can say it only reminds me of the name of first macedonian mitycal king Karan.
Аctually, there is a word "kara" - a verb that is used in a part of macedonian dialects (south and eastern) and in modern bulgarian literary language which have a meaning of "drive, lead, to make, to force to compel".

Daskalot
03-17-2009, 03:18 PM
Regarding *kar - I can say it only reminds me of the name of first macedonian mitycal king Karan.
Аctually, there is a word "kara" - a verb that is used in a part of macedonian dialects (south and eastern) and in modern bulgarian literary language which have a meaning of "drive, lead, to make, to force to compel".

welcome to the forum Po-drum, good first post!

osiris
03-18-2009, 01:41 AM
oxi re he was a slavophonos glick like the other one the arabophonos glick, they were all glick from the nth to the sth, sorry guys to bring the conversation down to a glick leval.

Bratot
03-25-2009, 10:53 AM
I want to point out something :)

First, do I notice the word SLAV descend of Beliesarius?

Born: 505 AD

When exactly the "Slavs" arrived? :)

Or they were always present there...


Another thing:

The last victory of Belisarius was gained in repelling an inroad of the Bulgarians, A. D. 559. (Agath.^^. V. 15-20; Theophanes, pp. 198,199.)
In a. D. 563 he was accused of a conspiracy against the life of Justinian, and his fortune was seques*tered. All that is certain after this is, that he died on the 13th of March, A. D. 565. (Theophanes pp. 160, 162.)

http://www.ancientlibrary.com/smith-bio/0488.html

He also was fighting against the Bulgarians, who were intruders.

:)

TrueMacedonian
03-25-2009, 04:22 PM
First, do I notice the word SLAV descend of Beliesarius?

Born: 505 AD

When exactly the "Slavs" arrived? :)

Or they were always present there...

It's also interesting to note another "Slav" General in Justinians army who also fought against the Bulgars. Chilbudius the Slav-http://books.google.com/books?id=n5pRANRQ-D0C&pg=PA51&lpg=PA51&dq=chilbudius+the+slav+general&source=bl&ots=waUCYw8wWh&sig=cL_veSSE9BZjAl4v8QR7028akL4&hl=en&ei=XJ_KSa6qOeHinQeW6OnHCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=5&ct=result

Here's what Florin Curta has to say about Chilbudius(or Phoney Chilbudius) http://books.google.com/books?id=mnSq1VNloGsC&pg=PA79&lpg=PA79&dq=chilbudius+the+slav+general&source=bl&ots=PQFJ_RiCKD&sig=GAn5_RchKB54sBr_U_hYDcUgdNU&hl=en&ei=XJ_KSa6qOeHinQeW6OnHCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result

Bratot
03-25-2009, 04:32 PM
I guess they didn't payed attention by using the terms "Slav" to point out somebody living before the 6th century. :)

Contradiction huh!?!

Pelister
03-25-2009, 08:35 PM
Precisely.

Why couldn't he be the Byzantine General of Macedonian descent?

This whole "Slav" shit that is creeping its way into our posts is starting to shit me.

Risto the Great
05-26-2009, 07:27 PM
http://www.balkanalysis.com/2009/05/26/in-eastern-macedonia-a-lost-fortress-of-justinian/
Great pictures on the link.

By Christopher Deliso
High on a windswept ridge in Macedonias barren northeastern expanse, some 17 kilometers down a rough dirt track heading towards Kratovo, it stands as a cryptic reminder of the countrys still largely undocumented past: the rocky remains of what was once an important outpost in the Early Byzantine imperial hinterland.

Nevertheless, the lack of specific references in Late Antique and Byzantine sources means that we may never know what the name of the settlement or its fortress actually was- a tantalizing omission that could only be resolved by epigraphy finds, which we so far havent encountered, says Dr. Carolyn Snively, an archaeologist and professor from Gettysburg College in Pennsylvania. For the last decade, Dr. Snively has been working jointly with international and Macedonian experts, supported by local workers at Konjuh- in the process, shedding light on this little-documented period of Macedonias remote history.

Recently having arrived back in Macedonia, Dr. Snively will soon lead excavations into an eleventh season of work. The dig will last from May 28 through August. Earlier today, she shared some insights and projections for this seasons upcoming work with Balkanalysis.com.

Background and Significance

The Konjuh site was originally discovered in 1938, but only worked on extensively during the 1970s by Yugoslav archaeologist Ivan Mikulcic. This Serbian expert drew the original plan of the site, which has been redrawn several times. Although the plan seriously needs to be updated, says Dr. Snively, we have not had an architect on site with enough free time and surveying skill to do it in recent seasons.

Although the name of the settlement and fortress has vanished, pottery finds date the ruins, clearly a fortress standing watch over now buried remnants of an urban settlement and church, to the 6th century- and the reign of Emperor Justinian I (r. 517-565), one of the greatest Byzantine rulers. Under Justinian, imperial authority was reasserted as far as northern Africa and parts of Italy. Justinians expansion efforts were executed by a powerful military led by his renowned general, Belisarius, considered a master tactician who could win battles even when cut off from communications with the capital or other parts of the army.

Serbian archaeologist Ivan Mikulcics original plan of the Konjuh site, with fortifications of the lower city outlined in orange (courtesy Carolyn Snively)

The Kratovo region, part of the mineral-rich Osogovski Mountain range, has always had strategic importance for its mines. Romans, Byzantines and Ottomans all excavated it extensively for gold, silver and iron. In the 6th century, the Byzantine Empire was beset by barbarian tribes in the Balkans but still held on to large areas through an extensive system of fortresses that allowed military garrisons to provide some measure of protection for settlements and ongoing economic activities. Indeed, an important part of the Justinianic legacy was the refortification of the region as part of his general military strategy.

At the fortress site, finds have revealed that one significant local activity then was the excavation of iron ore, a substance which archaeologists have discovered in large quantities among the various artifacts discovered to date.

The mining was carried out near todays village of Konjuh. A tiny enclave of a few hundred people, without even a village shop, the village is about 500m south of the ridgeline upon which the bygone fortress stands. Here there are no great stone towers or constructions, at least no remaining ones here, but the steepness of the ridge and its width at the top would have provided protection for defenders and adequate space to store weapons, provisions and, when necessary, people.

The fortress ridgeline is surrounded by valleys and, further on, flanked by other small ridges that could also have served as military outposts. At the top, the acropolis, there is a remarkable 3m (15ft)-deep cistern, and the remains of several small stairways and paths chiseled into the sides of the rock. Naturally formed turrets overlook the plain, behind which Byzantine bowmen could have taken aim at any invaders below.

Below, on the northern base of the fortress, excavators have made their most substantial discoveries. A street system, and the base of a Late Antique church indicate organized settlement occurred there over a period of several centuries. The settlement likely dates from the 5th century, says Dr. Snively, adding that there was probably a 3rd or 4th-century settlement in the vicinity, though I dont think the inhabitants started living on the sun-exposed northern terrace until the need for building a fortification arose later.

2009: Upcoming Plans

In keeping with the professional approach to managing the site, the remains of the foundations are all painstakingly reburied each year at the end of the digging season- partly, for their own protection, since the project hasnt the funds to hire a full-time guard. According to Dr. Snively, the team wont re-dig everything that has been buried in previous seasons. This year, we will concentrate on excavating the apse of the basilica we discovered last year, she says.

This exciting discovery confirms the significance of the site as a former center of civilization with some amount of population. According to Dr. Snively, one of the main goals of the 2009 dig in terms of this structure will be to define the basilicas shape and dimensions- we can say with 95 percent certainty that it is a 6th-century basilica, which would have been built within a few decades of Justinians fortification works.

Indeed, the whole region is remarkably rich in sites once populated during the Late Antique period. According to Katie Haas, an archaeology student from Gettysburg College who has come to Macedonia for the summer thanks to a grant from the Mellon Foundation, there is a marked efflorescence of Late Antique sites in this region. As a member of the dig team, Katie will concentrate on the important job of small finds analysis- particularly, spatial pattern analysis of the site. She is part of a nine-person team (comprised of American, British and Macedonian archaeologists, who will be aided by local workmen.

Methodology and Cultural Heritage Protection

While locals have since learned to respect the sites integrity and have developed good relations with the excavation teams, some nefarious diggers have in the past attempted to search here, as almost everywhere in Macedonia, for gold in the process, breaking their drill heads when inadvertently striking the solid bedrock.

While occasionally outsiders continue to show up illegally, Dr. Snively does not anticipate any trouble this summer from the wild diggers, as such people are known in the press. Indeed, other local inhabitants are more in danger, as when the villagers sheepdogs were sadly poisoned en masse by a probable sheep-rustler- indicating that this still is the wild east to some extent.

Part of the archaeologists sustained good relations with the locals owes to education and trust-building efforts carried out since 1998. But it also owes to something that helps explain why the fortress has attracted relatively little attention thus far- a lack of shiny objects. The lack of major awareness of the site, despite its historical significance, probably stems from the fact that neither gold nor silver, nor colorful mosaics have yet been discovered. Traditionally, these sort of big-ticket items are what draw attention from the central government (this is of course not only the case in Macedonia).

Although archaeologists do not anticipate making stunning discoveries of buried treasure at Konjuh, the possibility cannot be completely excluded. Working with extraordinary diligence since 1998, Dr. Snively has deliberately not chosen to dig for burial areas on the site even though such spots would have the best chance of containing jewelry and coins partly because there has not been sufficient support available to protect the site during the off-season. Were the site to gain a reputation for riches, the thinking goes, it would become more difficult to protect it from looters.

Another reason why the team is deliberately not looking for burial sites is because of lack of sufficient support for an activity which would greatly enlarge the scope and character of the operation.

If we found a cemetery, we would then have to bring in a physical anthropologist too, says Dr. Snively, noting also the further permits and bureaucratic requirements that would be needed in such cases. While the Macedonian government has pledged an all-out campaign for excavating mega-sites like Stobi, Heraclea and Ohrid-area locales, more modest sites like Konjuh have gone largely unnoticed.

Konjuh: A Great Example of Cooperation

Konjuh locals have also been happy to see the site remain undisturbed, archaeologist Snively believes, because it has provided an occasional source of employment for the economically depressed village, when additional workers or watchmen have been needed over the past decade. Injecting even a few thousand dollars into the local economy makes a big difference in a small village like this, she notes.

Future Tourism Potential?

Indeed, one of the very interesting aspects of the site for the future is its specific placement. The fortress is set in what is today literally the middle of nowhere, on a ridge above the Kriva River near Konjuh. However, some raised concrete pillars that might seem equally mysterious to outsiders may hold the key for the areas development as a tourism destination. Long-neglected skeletons of bridge supports, these and other similar structures dot the wilderness in eastern Macedonia- unfinished pieces of proposed railway and highway links to Bulgaria. For various reasons, the long-hoped-for infrastructure project has never been completed. If it were, the site would be ideally located for travelers to access.

Even today, the Konjuh fortress site is accessible enough for visitors, if coming with a professional guide, and part of a cluster of local sites around Kratovo, such as the standing stone dolls of Kuklica, the enigmatic Neolithic rock site of Cacev Kamen, and the magnificent Lesnovski Monastery. When combined with the natural beauty of this mountainous region and the potential for outdoor activities, plus the architectural attractiveness of Kratovo itself, this clearly indicates the potential for a multi-faceted tourism product that could conceivably put this forgotten corner of northeastern Macedonia back on the map- even if the name of the fortress settlement has vanished from the map long ago.

The cultural heritage protection aspect of the Konjuh fortress site is particularly intriguing to Seth Elder, an American Fulbright scholar from DePauw University in Indiana. Seth chose to come to Macedonia for his research on the practical connections between archaeology, local communities and economic development. Since arriving in Macedonia last year, and touring numerous sites, he has gained insight into the Konjuh site from a comparative sense.

According to him, the Konjuh site is a great example of cooperation between local and international archaeologists, and also with the local community. Since Macedonia has been somewhat isolated from international archaeologists attention, theres a real need for more work like this to be carried out in the future. He also emphasizes the need for Macedonian archaeologists to publish their findings more widely in foreign journals, as this activity is a key part of attracting the attention of outside experts who often have the ability to acquire funding and personnel for increasing archeological efforts.

TrueMacedonian
09-18-2009, 11:55 PM
http://byzantineempire.info/

Born in Illyricum to Slavic parents adopted by his uncle, the emperor Justin (452-527).

TrueMacedonian
12-22-2009, 05:54 PM
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s43/truemacedonian/Miscellanius%20Mak%20Stuff/bader.png
page 96
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s43/truemacedonian/Miscellanius%20Mak%20Stuff/bader96.png

http://www.taurisium.com/english/za_tauresium.html

About Tauresium

Tauresium, the birthplace Justinian I (527-565), is mentioned by ancient author Prokopius in his composition De aedificiis For buildings.
In his composition, Prokopius declared:
Somewhere in the area of European Dardanians, who live behind Epidamnian border, close to castle Baderiana (today, village Bader), was found village Tavrisi (today, Taor). Here was born king Justinian, founder of world kingdom. Surrounding this village with square walls and building tower on each corner, he created four corner castles and named it Tetrapirgus. Here he build nice city and named it Justiniana Prima, on this way he wants to show his gratitude to parenthood
The site of archeological locality Gradishte v. Taor is 20 km southeast from Skopje. First time, it is discovered hundred and more years ago, from English traveler Arthur Evans, who recognized lost city as Justiniana Prima, where ancient Skupi was located, and village Taor as Tauresium, birthplace of king Justinian I. In historical chronology this locality is related with big imperator Justinian I, mostly because of the quoted data from his biographer Procopius. According to historian Procopius, Justinian I was born in the place named Tauresium, near castle Baderiana. This settlement was destroyed in the big earthquake in 518 year; the epicenter was in present Skopje and beside other cities, ancient colonia of Skupi suffered lost. Justinian I renovate and build up again this city; with this showing gratitude to its birthplace. Close to this place, he builds wonderful and fascinating city of his archiepiscopy, Justiniana Prima.
The excavations showed that in Taor really exist castle from IV century with four towers (tetrapirgia). As Procopius noticed, 6 km east from Taor, near village Bader is settled castle with oddments from IV-VI century. Maybe its real name was Baderiana, which Procopius indicates it as nearest landmark. It is important to declare that names of villages Taor and Bader has before Slavic heritage, which indicates, the possibility this names are deductive from Tauresium and Baderiana. In 2000 year started a systematic excavation performed from Museum of the city of Skopje and leader of excavation was archeologist Kiro Ristov.
First explorations on the field recorded artifacts from early bronze century (which are sporadically and without parallel cultural layer as context). Later was discovered part from the bulwark which surrounded the settlement. The focus, for now, is on remains on two public buildings, from which second one is more interesting, because researchers assume this is atrium. The atrium induce the idea that here we should expect existence of bigger public building. This shows that in the period of late antique, from IV-VI century and later, the population in this area had active social life. For this testify the big number of coins, jewelry, ceramic plates, glass objects for everyday use, armor remains, tools, weapons and other artifacts.

Risto the Great
12-22-2009, 06:47 PM
Why are Zimarchus and Dityvistus "recognisably Thracian"?
We see them described a Illyrian in other texts.
Does anyone feel that many Proto Thracians became the Vlachs we know in modern times?

TrueMacedonian
12-22-2009, 07:16 PM
Why are Zimarchus and Dityvistus "recognisably Thracian"?
We see them described a Illyrian in other texts.
Does anyone feel that many Proto Thracians became the Vlachs we know in modern times?

There's no solid evidence to suggest that the Vlachs are from Thracian stock. The Goths were settled in Dacia by Emperor Aurellian where they managed to remain peaceful for a short while before moving on to destroy most of the Roman empire. They might be descendents of these people but who really knows.

Soldier of Macedon
12-22-2009, 08:00 PM
I feel that the Thracians (all tribes collectively) were the main element that formed the core of the 6th century Slavic-speaking people, I don't think there can be any doubt if all the evidence was reviewed.

Good sources TM.

TrueMacedonian
12-22-2009, 10:42 PM
Thanks SoM.

Pelister
12-22-2009, 10:47 PM
I really enjoyed reading this about Justinian. He is our Macedonian.

The Latin element in Macedonia is a funny thing, and native Vlachs seem to have moved around alot. They seem to be most heavily clustered along the Via Egnatia which indicates they are the descendants of Roman soldiers and citizens, but that is just a guess.

TrueMacedonian
12-22-2009, 11:02 PM
I really enjoyed reading this about Justinian. He is our Macedonian.

The Latin element in Macedonia is a funny thing, and native Vlachs seem to have moved around alot. They seem to be most heavily clustered along the Via Egnatia which indicates they are the descendants of Roman soldiers and citizens, but that is just a guess.

Whatever he may have been ethnically he was still related to the Macedonians some how, especially culturally - http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1029

His reign resonates today through the Christian world with the Hagia Sophia.

As for Latin elements in Macedonia what about this;

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s43/truemacedonian/Miscellanius%20Mak%20Stuff/Stoianovich/traian.png
page 73
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s43/truemacedonian/Miscellanius%20Mak%20Stuff/Stoianovich/traian73.png

lavce pelagonski
03-23-2011, 04:02 AM
Justinian I
Justinian was one of the most famous and successful emperors of the Byzantine era after Constantine I. He was born in Ilyricum (near Skopje in Macedonia) in 482 or 483 AD. In 523 he married Theodora, a scandalous dancer thus he was criticized a lot, and ascended to the throne in 527 AD after the death of Justin I. After becoming an emperor, he fought against the Persians between 528-530 who invaded Mesopotamia and attacked on the Byzantine lands, and he stopped them thanks to one of his great commanders of the army, Belisarius.
It was under his reign when Nika Riot destroyed the city and most of its important monuments including Hagia Sophia Church, killing over 30.000 people in five days of urban warfare. Justinian managed to end the riot with a great difficulty and than he dedicated himself on the reconstruction of Constantinople and its monuments; Hagia Sophia church, Hagia Irene church, Underground cistern were all built under his rule.
In 533 AD Justinian sent his army to Africa under the command of Belisarius to get rid of the Vandal Kingdom which caused the Byzantines many problems, and he succeeded. In 535 AD he sent his army to Italy with his most favorite commander to end the incapable government of Theodahad, landing in Sicily and advancing all the way to Rome and Ravenna fighting against the Goths until 540. Afterwards another war broke out with Persians in the east, who attacked on the Byzantines and captured Antioch. The war went on until finally Justinian signed a peace pact with Persians in 555 AD.
As for the interior affairs, Justinian supported the Roman Law. He established the Justinian Code (Codex Justinianus) in 529 AD uniting all valid imperial laws under one and thus founding the base of almost all legal systems in Europe. He also introduced the silk-worm culture to Europe. But on the other hand, his passion for building great monuments such as Hagia Sophia put the Byzantine treasure under stress and this brought high taxes damaging the trade and industry. Same thing happened with a heavy war taxation to support his war campaigns.
Emperor Justinian died in 565 AD at the age of 83, after reigning for 38 years. He was succeeded by his nephew Justin II. Justinian was buried at the Church of the Holy Apostles in today's Fatih district, which was plundered by the Crusaders and later destroyed by earthquakes.

Macedonian Emperors
867886 Basil I, the Macedonian
886912 Leo VI, the Wise
912913 Alexander III
913959 Constantine VII, Porphyrogenitus
919944 Romanus I, Lecapenus
959963 Romanus II
963969 Nicephorus II, Phocas
969976 John I, Tzimisces
9761025 Basil II, Bulgaroktonus
102528 Constantine VIII
102850 Zo
102834 Romanus III, Argyrus
103441 Michael IV, the Paphlagonian
104142 Michael V, Calaphates
104254 Constantine IX, Monomachus
105456 Theodora
105657 Michael VI, Stratioticus
105759 Isaac I, Comnenus
105967 Constantine X, Dukas
1067 Andronicus
1067 Constantine XI
106771 Romanus IV, Diogenes
107178 Michael VII, Parapinakes
107881 Nicephorus III, Botaniates
10811118 Alexius I, Comnenus
111843 John IV, Calus
114380 Manuel I
118083 Alexius II
118285 Andronicus I
118595 Isaac II, Angelus-Comnenus
11951203 Alexius III, Angelus
120304 Alexius IV
1204 Alexius V, Dukas
527565 Justinian I (The Great)
565578 Justin II

Soldier of Macedon
03-24-2011, 12:16 AM
Lavche, where did you get the list from? I don't think it is entirely accurate.

lavce pelagonski
03-24-2011, 03:03 AM
I was searching though my folders and came across it I will see if I can find the source

Soldier of Macedon
04-03-2011, 06:59 PM
I have merged individual threads relating to Justinian and Belisarius into this one.

lavce pelagonski
07-23-2011, 07:42 AM
‪Таор и Јустинијана Прима‬‏ - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnwFzowphaQ)

Soldier of Macedon
12-26-2011, 06:50 PM
On the first couple of pages in this thread the possibility of 'Belisarius' meaning 'White Prince' was discussed. The name may actually be related to the south Slavic name 'Velizar', meaning 'great'. Another name with a similar ending is 'Svetozar'. Just a thought.