Talija Dragonas: Ethnic Macedonians have the right of self identification

[Prolet]

Is she for real?? She says that Ethnic Macedonians in Northern Greece have every right to call themselves Ethnic Macedonians just like the Greeks in Athens call themselves Greeks.

Video Footage Below:

Dimko, This is surly a big step in the right direction dont you agree?

Талиа Драгонас: Етничките Македонци имаат право на себеидентификација
10.01.2010


“Грција не може да биде носител на единствена античка култура, и не смее да има негативен став кон малцинствата во земјата. Етничките Македонци во северна Грција имаат право за себеидентификација исто како што луѓето од Атина имаат право да се нарекуваат Грци”. Ова го пишува генералниот секретар на грчкото Министерство за образование и наука Талиа Драгонас во нејзината книга “Што е нашата земја”.

Тезите со нож беа дочекани од националистичката Лаос. Караџаферис од говорницата на грчкиот Парламент ја обвини функционерката за ширење на анти државни ставови и побара нејзина оставка. Изнесените историски факти за Македонците и Турците беа повод деновиве во Грција да се отвори и дебата за малцинставата и националниот идентитет, прашања кои политичките партии ги избегнуваат по секоја цена.

Она што најмноги ги погоди грчите националисти е тврдење дека грчкиот идентитет е основан во 19 век. Наспроти уверувањата за античко потекло на грчката култура, Драгонас која меѓу другото е професор, пишува дека Грција доживува културно просветлувања во Отоманскиот период, а дека грчкиот идентитет се создваа под влијание на Велика Британија и Франција во 19 век.

- Горда сум на историјата, културата и мојот идентитет, но исто така треба да се бориме и за демократија, толерантно општество и почит кон сите луѓе и култури во светот. Тоа што моите книги беа примени како анти-грчки и остранети од страна на Владата не би рекла дека е демократски. Кога станува збор за културните права, бројното турско малцинство, како и бројните како што ги нарекува нашата Влада Славомакедонци, немаат право на самоидентификација - изјави Драгонас во интервју за То Вима.

Лавината обвинувања на нејзина сметка, таа ги оцени како чисто полтички и рече дека нема намера да поднесе оставака туку напротив е подготвена и да се спротистави на ЛАОС.

Ова не е прв пат грчки интелектуалци да и контрираат на политиката на официјална Атина.
Издавањето на книгата го финасираше Европската унија.

Снежана Јовановскa

http://www.sitel.com.mk/dnevnik/makedonija/talia-dragonas-etnichkite-makedonci-imaat-pravo-na-sebeidentifikacija

[DedoAleko]

maybe this will help:

Greek Gen Sec of Education: Identity created in 19th Century
Saturday, 09 January 2010

Thalia Dragonas, secretary general of the Greek Ministry of Education and university professor from Athens, nowadays faces an avalanche of attacks for stating Greek identity was created in the 19th century.

The charges came in Greek Parliament by the leader of the nationalist party LAOS George Karadzhaferis who pointed at Dragos for writing in her book "What is our country," positively on the Ottoman Empire and Greek claims that identity is created (manufactured by Germany and UK) `in the 19th century.

LAOS claimed Dragos is not a patriot, and has Anti-Greek views for ... stating the obvious.

The nationalists are bothered that Dragonas stated that present Greece in no way continues to be bearer of unique ancient culture, and that there mustn't be negative attitude towards migrants to the country.

Mrs. Dragonas drew the ire for saying in another book that the ethnic Macedonians in northern Greece have the right to self identification, just as much as the people who live in Athens have the right to call themselves "Greeks".

"When it comes to cultural rights, the number of what our Government terms SlavoMacedonians in Northern Greece and, more importantly, numerous Muslim (Turkish) minority in Thrace do not have the right to self identification" stated Mrs. Dragonas in her book "Citizenship and Nations-states in Greece and Turkey".

In an interview with To Vima published nowadays, Dragonas says nobody has the right to give degrees of patriotism.

- I am proud of the history, culture and my identity, but also fight for Greece and the Greek struggle for democracy, education, humanitarian, tolerant society, to equalization of our position in Europe and respect for all people and cultures in the world - says Dragonas in her interview with the explanation that paragraphs from her books that were perceived as "Anti-Greek" were removed by the Government. Not very democratic, one would say.

However, the accusations directed at the Greek professor and secretary general of the Ministry of Education has a positive side because it opened a debate about immigrants and national identity issues that political parties in Greece usually do everything to avoid. Famous Greek writer and fighter for human rights Takis Mihas writes that this is the positive effect of the case with Dragonas. According to him, all serious historians believe that the Ottoman period was one of the most culturally enlightening in history. In his text for Eleftherotypia, Mihas added that not only Dragonas but well known British historians have stated that the Greek national identity was created in the 19th century.

izvor: http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/11749/1/

[Alpha]

Again, more proof that we are not a fascist country and that there are ppl in greek govt that are very open and liberal to certain ideas.

As far as this 19th century identity making...Taking this meaning out of context to justify and supplement propaganda is simply destined to failure. Once again, there are ppl in greece that have good intentions, but their approach is all wrong. They never take into account ppl like you that will post this information as a justification of their propaganda. And that is where the mistake of Dragonas and Mihas lies.

[Daskalot]

Bravo Talia for speaking out!

[Prolet]

Well Said Daskale

Alpha, Tell us about Karaxaferis calling on Talija to resign?

[Alpha]

Whats there to say Prolet ? Its clear that Karatsaferis is a nationalist.
Your present day gruevski if you will...

You make the conclusion.

[Bill77]

Whats there to say Prolet ? Its clear that Karatsaferis is a nationalist.
Your present day gruevski if you will...

You make the conclusion.

Gruevski is a patriot who loves his country and ethnicity. Karatsaferis hates other countries an ethnics and freedom of speech.

[Prolet]

Alpha, Have you heard public statements from Gruevski about having murder Greeks or executing them like Karaxaferis has about Macedonians?? You can compare Karaxaferis to ultra nationalists like Voislav Sheshelj not Gruevski.

[Alpha]

Prolet, pls post some sources regarding those claims about Karatzaferis.

[Alpha]

Gruevski is a patriot who loves his country and ethnicity. Karatsaferis hates other countries an ethnics and freedom of speech.

Bill, you should know that ppl in opposition always talk tough. Once in power they have to tone down their rhetoric. This is the case everywhere. Gruevski was running around placing wreaths with maps of " occupied " macedonia and road signs with Dimko's Avatar on it.

[Bill77]

Bill, you should know that ppl in opposition always talk tough. Once in power they have to tone down their rhetoric. This is the case everywhere. Gruevski was running around placing wreaths with maps of " occupied " macedonia and road signs with Dimko's Avatar on it.

like i said he loves his country. And that the whole of Macedonia, He or i would not have favouritism or devide it, would you?

[Alpha]

Well if Gruevski loves his country than so does Karatsaferis in the same way.
They should both go bowling together...

[Risto the Great]

Again, more proof that we are not a fascist country and that there are ppl in greek govt that are very open and liberal to certain ideas.

As far as this 19th century identity making...Taking this meaning out of context to justify and supplement propaganda is simply destined to failure. Once again, there are ppl in greece that have good intentions, but their approach is all wrong. They never take into account ppl like you that will post this information as a justification of their propaganda. And that is where the mistake of Dragonas and Mihas lies.

Alpha, how should we interpret the statements from Thalia Dragonas, secretary general of the Greek Ministry of Education? Tell us how non Macedonians should interpret the statements from this eminently qualified person? But please don't do it the way "you people" normally go about it.

[TajnataKniga]

interesting post.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Gruevski was running around placing wreaths with maps of " occupied " macedonia and road signs with Dimko's Avatar on it.

Thousands of Macedonians of the 19th and 20th century died fighting for a dream, of a united and free Macedonia. Laying a wreath in memory of these Macedonians is not a sign of extremism, do you see Gruevski asking for his ancestral home to be adjoined to the Macedonian republic? Do you see Gruevski asking Karadzafer to change his identity?

People in Macedonia feel the need to make comparisons between today's Greece and Nazi Germany because your government's actions resemble the latter in a 21st century fashion. If you people didn't create an artificial dispute over our name this issue would not exist.