Macedonian Truth Forum   

Go Back   Macedonian Truth Forum > Macedonian Truth Forum > Macedonian History

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-16-2020, 08:03 PM   #61
Soldier of Macedon
Administrator
 
Soldier of Macedon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Macedonian Outpost
Posts: 13,270
Soldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amphipolis View Post
You would have never used this flag if it wasn't for Vergina excavations and you had never used the exact symbol (or its' variations), in any meaningful manner, before 1978.
If that's the case, neither would Greece. Nor had they. But there's a difference. That symbol featured prominently at the excavated tomb and as such was representative of a time in antiquity when Macedonia was free and independent. It was adopted as a state symbol in the modern era because Macedonia was once again free and independent. It wasn't a symbol that represented the subjugation of Macedonia to Athens, which is an inescapable nuance when people of your ilk use it, whether they care to admit it or not.

And whilst that symbol or variants of it may be sparingly found on ancient artefacts across the Balkans, since the excavated tomb it has also been unearthed in places like Ohrid and Prilep, where it decorates pottery and the shields carried by Macedonian soldiers. So you're in no position to definitively argue that Macedonia (or Macedonians) would never have used the symbol or a variant of it as some stage. Moreover, depictions of the sun have been a feature in Macedonian iconography, so the adoption of this particular symbol by the people can hardly be deemed unnatural.

Greece's comical obsession with the symbol is much like the debacle about erecting a statue of Alexander in Athens. In both cases it is ironic beyond measure. The ancient inhabitants of Athens were subjugated by Alexander and probably trembled at the sight of his Macedonian soldiers that carried shields emblazoned with that symbol. In Greece today, descendants of Albanian and Anatolian immigrants claim both as their own. I would suggest a case of Stockholm Syndrome, but that would only be true were it to refer to actual Greeks.
__________________
In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a full blooded Macedonian.
Soldier of Macedon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2020, 08:07 AM   #62
Amphipolis
Senior Member
 
Amphipolis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,296
Amphipolis is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicho Makedonski View Post
It’s common sense, at the start of Phillip II of Macedon’s reign there were only 6 rays on the Macedonian sun but as Ancient Macedonia proper grew and more tribes became part of the Macedonian nation, more rays were added equaling the 16 Macedonian tribes. I’ve seen fellow Macedonians speak of this theory and it makes sense.
The first part isn't so. You'll find out that this story cannot be found in any books (serious or not) or sources, it's a modern legend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicho Makedonski View Post
because it is the cultural symbol of the ethnic Macedonians since ancient times.
That suggests continuity, when in reality the mere fact that the location of Vergina/Aegae was unknown in modern times is a proof of extreme non-continuity.
Amphipolis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2020, 08:25 AM   #63
Amphipolis
Senior Member
 
Amphipolis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,296
Amphipolis is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
That symbol featured prominently at the excavated tomb and as such was representative of a time in antiquity when Macedonia was free and independent. It was adopted as a state symbol in the modern era because Macedonia was once again free and independent.
That is Greece's point. That you try to present yourselves as relevant to Ancient Macedonia.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
It wasn't a symbol that represented the subjugation of Macedonia to Athens, which is an inescapable nuance when people of your ilk use it, whether they care to admit it or not.
I don't know any such symbols actually.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
And whilst that symbol or variants of it may be sparingly found on ancient artefacts across the Balkans, since the excavated tomb it has also been unearthed in places like Ohrid and Prilep, where it decorates pottery and the shields carried by Macedonian soldiers. So you're in no position to definitively argue that Macedonia (or Macedonians) would never have used the symbol or a variant of it as some stage. Moreover, depictions of the sun have been a feature in Macedonian iconography, so the adoption of this particular symbol by the people can hardly be deemed unnatural.
Really?? What are the chances?? Vergina discovery, as any archaeological discovery, could very likely have not happened. And you're really arguing there are chances you would have adopted the same symbol. Can you find any reference in your books or history prior to 1978?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
Greece's comical obsession with the symbol is much like the debacle about erecting a statue of Alexander in Athens. In both cases it is ironic beyond measure. The ancient inhabitants of Athens were subjugated by Alexander and probably trembled at the sight of his Macedonian soldiers that carried shields emblazoned with that symbol. In Greece today, descendants of Albanian and Anatolian immigrants claim both as their own. I would suggest a case of Stockholm Syndrome, but that would only be true were it to refer to actual Greeks.
I think the Roman Empire "solved" these problems. This is 2020 and the 1944-1949 Civil War issues have been left behind. The 1910s-1920s so called National Division didn't mean much after Venizelos' death. I'm pretty sure modern Spartans and Athenians are not continuing the Peloponnesian War.
Amphipolis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2020, 11:33 AM   #64
Soldier of Macedon
Administrator
 
Soldier of Macedon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Macedonian Outpost
Posts: 13,270
Soldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amphipolis View Post
That is Greece's point. That you try to present yourselves as relevant to Ancient Macedonia.
It's the other way around. We consider all of Macedonia's history, including antiquity, relevant to us. That's quite normal for any nation. England has statues of Boudicca and Richard the Lionheart near the Palace of Westminster - neither of them spoke English. In the case of the former, the Anglo-Saxons hadn't even arrived in the British Isles yet, whereas the latter spent barely 6 months of his 10 year kingship in England. I don't think I have ever seen Wales or France complain about England asserting the relevance of a Celtic queen or French-speaking (and mostly French by ancestry) king to itself. Perhaps it has something to do with them not being psychotically insecure or delusional like Greece. That is my point.
Quote:
I don't know any such symbols actually.
Sure you do, just look at the blue and white rag hanging on your wall.
Quote:
Really?? What are the chances?? Vergina discovery, as any archaeological discovery, could very likely have not happened. And you're really arguing there are chances you would have adopted the same symbol. Can you find any reference in your books or history prior to 1978?
There's no need for two question marks per question. Temper your excitement and read a little slower. If the discovery of the tomb never occurred it doesn't mean the discovery in Prilep would have suffered the same fate. A symbol on the shield of a Macedonian soldier would seem appropriate for state or cultural use as it would pay homage to our ancestors. So, yes, there is a chance, but I don't provide specific odds on hypotheticals like you do. It would be like asking for specific odds on a fight between Mike Tyson and Muhammad Ali and being serious about it. Seems like a fun idea in the beginning until reality kicks in and you realise you're being a moron.
Quote:
I think the Roman Empire "solved" these problems. This is 2020 and the 1944-1949 Civil War issues have been left behind. The 1910s-1920s so called National Division didn't mean much after Venizelos' death. I'm pretty sure modern Spartans and Athenians are not continuing the Peloponnesian War.
Spartans and Athenians were Greek. Macedonians were not. You may disagree, but I could care less because you still don't get it. These aren't historical problems that need to be solved, they're inferiority complex issues that you and your supposed kinsfolk need to examine. In case it's escaped your attention, most countries don't behave like irrational tyrants when others disagree with their narrative on ancient and medieval history, unless they have something to hide. You may think that such an approach demonstrates political strength, but what it really does is expose the weakness of your identity. Macedonia is the smaller country yet Greece (and Bulgaria) have the Napoleon complex. It would be amusing if it wasn't so pathetic.
__________________
In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a full blooded Macedonian.
Soldier of Macedon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2020, 06:18 PM   #65
Chicho Makedonski
Junior Member
 
Chicho Makedonski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 38
Chicho Makedonski is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amphipolis View Post
The first part isn't so. You'll find out that this story cannot be found in any books (serious or not) or sources, it's a modern legend.
Haha please, it's not the matter of books... common sense prevails and the word of the people who created and use the symbol throughout time, the Macedonians.

Last edited by Chicho Makedonski; 11-17-2020 at 06:25 PM.
Chicho Makedonski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2020, 06:28 PM   #66
Chicho Makedonski
Junior Member
 
Chicho Makedonski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 38
Chicho Makedonski is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amphipolis View Post
The first part isn't so. You'll find out that this story cannot be found in any books (serious or not) or sources, it's a modern legend.



That suggests continuity, when in reality the mere fact that the location of Vergina/Aegae was unknown in modern times is a proof of extreme non-continuity.
It has nothing to do with Vergina/Aegae. The Macedonian sun is not only subject to Vergina/Aegae, it's the cultural symbol of the Macedonians since ancient times. The Macedonians preserved the Macedonian sun throughout time which is why modern Macedonians used the Macedonian sun in public areas as early as the 1700/1800's.
Chicho Makedonski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2020, 08:23 PM   #67
Risto the Great
Senior Member
 
Risto the Great's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Macedonian Colony of Australia
Posts: 14,938
Risto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond repute
Default

I find it amusing when reality clashes head-on against myths which seem perfectly logical to a Greek. What I don't get is how much slack is afforded to Greeks in this regard. Large swathes of Greek uninhabited lands received numerous population transfers of various ethnic identities over thousands of years. Now the "pure Greeks" point the finger at Macedonians claiming purity and sole ownership of ancient Greece (much less Macedonia). It is positively pathetic and should be shut down at every opportunity.
__________________
Risto the Great
MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA

"Holding my breath for the revolution."
Risto the Great is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump