Flags/Banners of Macedonia

[Niko777]

Originally Posted by Risto the Great

Of course you realise you weren't even allowed to wear green in Ottoman times unless you were a Muslim. If we see any Green on a Macedonian flag, I would regard it as an extreme act of aggression. What do you think Deliberator of Macedon?

Apostol Petkov was the fiercest of them all, em komita em aramija

[Risto the Great]

I would have thought a red lion on a sea of green would have been violently making a statement Niko.

I'll have to read more about Petkov.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Originally Posted by Niko777

I wonder if the green backdrop is a reference to or was borrowed from the green Ottoman flag?

Originally Posted by Risto the Great

If we see any Green on a Macedonian flag, I would regard it as an extreme act of aggression.

I think there may be some merit in both of your suggestions. The green was probably borrowed from an Ottoman flag, perhaps because it was a familiar enough colour for a battle flag or perhaps because it was a sign of rebellion / aggression against the Islamic oppressors. It's probably a similar reason Bulgarians used it, except in their case they took it further. When they established their state they adopted the Russian flag and changed the middle stripe from blue to green, so the Bulgarian flag is, from top to bottom, white-green-red. In some of the flags (or supposedly reconstructed flags) used by Macedonian revolutionaries posted on this thread, if we are to assume that green was used, they don't follow the same colour order as the Bulgarian flag.

Originally Posted by Karposh

I'm no expert either but, if I was to hazard a guess, I think it has something to do with the communist atheist ideology of the time (i.e. in 1944/45) who, on the one hand, felt the need to commemorate the Macedonian people's uprising against the Turks and, on the other, break all ties with the Orthodox church.

Looks like the Gregorian calendar was imposed on different parts of occupied Macedonia between 1912 and 1923. See the below link:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregor...endar#Adoption

Would it be better to go the way of Ovcharani and other Aegean Macedonian villages who celebrate Ilinden on 20th of July?...I'm not sure but I wouldn't be opposed to it ether way.

It's not better as it would be commemorated on the wrong day (as it currently is in Ovčarani). I think important calendar events should be acknowledged by their corresponding dates according to the Julian calendar, so next time Ilinden comes around on August 2nd (according to the Gregorian calendar everybody uses today), the church and Macedonian organisations commemorating the event could make an effort to publicise the fact that it is actually July 20th according to our old calendar on that same day.

[Om3n]

Just so it's understood, there is no verifiable proof that there was ever a flag featuring a red lion on a green background except for a modern colourisation and reconstruction which are discredited by desaturation. There are however multiple examples of a gold lion on a green background being used in Bulgaria. In favour of it being a black or brown lion on a red background, there are several examples of historical flags using this colour scheme including the modern reconstruction from Zagoricheni itself (https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...9640735&type=3). Furthermore, in 1992 there was a proposal for the coat of arms of Macedonia showing a black lion or a red background (http://heraldika.org.mk/heraldry/izb...kedonija-1992/).

[FoxTale]

Been seeing this image being spread around by Bulgars and them claiming that Bulgarian flags were flown during the uprising. Any truth to this?

[Liberator of Makedonija]

Originally Posted by FoxTale

Been seeing this image being spread around by Bulgars and them claiming that Bulgarian flags were flown during the uprising. Any truth to this?

Yes I've seen this too. It appears to be a recolouring of the flag of the Ohrid četa, which I have already posted in this thread.

As for the claims of Bulgarian flags flown during the rising, I have never been shown any evidence of this by either photographs or written recordings. There is both physical and written evidence of other flags and banners during the rising but none about these mythical Bulgarian flags so I would say these are just Bulgar lies.

[Carlin]

Originally Posted by Karposh

I'm no expert either but, if I was to hazard a guess, I think it has something to do with the communist atheist ideology of the time (i.e. in 1944/45) who, on the one hand, felt the need to commemorate the Macedonian people's uprising against the Turks and, on the other, break all ties with the Orthodox church. The modern equivalent of the Orthodox calendar date for Ilinden, 2nd of August, commemorates the Ilinden Uprising without tying it to the Orthodox Church. That's my take on it anyway.

The "paradox" here is that the new communist authorities were one of the strongest advocates (and supporters) for the creation of a separate/autonomous Macedonian Church.

[Liberator of Makedonija]

Postcard from the Balkan Wars portraying then Bulgarian PM, Vasil Radoslavov with flags reading 'Independent Bulgaria' and 'Free Macedonia'. A good representation of how Bulgaria attempted to portray themselves as liberators of Macedonia and likely how they persauded many Macedonians to fight for them during the wars.



A flag likely designed around the same time, promoting a 'Free Macedonia' [under Bulgaria].

[Liberator of Makedonija]

Originally Posted by Niko777

Apostol Petkov was the fiercest of them all, em komita em aramija

Don't know how I've only just noticed now that the red half contains the embodiment of Macedonia, which has appeared in numerous other banners and drawings, and the green half depicts a defeated Ottoman soldier. The triump of the red (Macedonia) over the green (Ottoman Empire)? Think it's fair to assume this could be the reason for the colouring of this flag.

[VMRO]

Originally Posted by Liberator of Makedonija

Don't know how I've only just noticed now that the red half contains the embodiment of Macedonia, which has appeared in numerous other banners and drawings, and the green half depicts a defeated Ottoman soldier. The triump of the red (Macedonia) over the green (Ottoman Empire)? Think it's fair to assume this could be the reason for the colouring of this flag.

Green depicts Islam.