Vinko Pribojevic and the Glory of the Slavs

[DraganOfStip]

Originally Posted by Constellation

You are free to believe what you want about me, my identity, and my writings.

Well,you provide a lot of space for doubts regarding this.
And the more posts you make,the more you (make yourself) look like an imposter.
And your above comment kinda puts the cherry on the top.
I rest my case.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Originally Posted by Constellation

I cannot do that, since you edited the post to reflect the quote I gave.

Which post did I edit? Refer me to it.

First of all, scholars and textbooks are two different words.

No kidding. That's very insightful, thanks.

Second, textbooks generally represent the established consensus of scholars.

I said that already.

The general consensus of scholars is that the ancient Macedonians were either Greek, probably Greek, or the Macedonian elite became Hellenized in time.

Have you read the ancient sources and the analyses done by the likes of Borza, Green and others? What is your opinion on them?

In addition, it is the general consensus of scholars that today's Macedonians descend from ethnic Slavs who migrated to the Balkans. This was also the official Yugoslav propaganda.

You said that already. Why do you think these scholars say this? Are they justified?

As for a number of scholars that refer to certain similarity between the ancient and modern Balkan populations, this is a small number, and I do not know of a single serious Western scholar who believes that this applies to ancient Macedonia and Macedonia, though I agree there are guys like John Wilkes with the Illyrian/Bosnian theory.

Don't you think it is inferred, or is Macedonia not in the Balkans? Who are the numerous scholars that deny any similarities between the ancient and modern Balkan populations? What do they have to say? What are your thoughts on their opinions?

[Constellation]

Which post did I edit? Refer me to it.

The one in this thread. You edited it after I added the quote about some Macedonians identifying as Slavic. You then edited your post to reflect this quote. A small point, and trivial, and I do not want to waste my time with this anymore.

Have you read the ancient sources and the analyses done by the likes of Borza, Green and others? What is your opinion on them?

Yes. I agree with Borza et al., but these same authors also believe modern day Macedonians arrived in the 6th century or so.

You said that already. Why do you think these scholars say this? Are they justified?

Much of it is ignorance. Part of it is bias. And part of it is political. I have no doubt that most scholars are just innocently ignorant. However, I suspect a small percentage knows better and are biased. The other is just political. If a consensus of scholars agreed that the ancient Macedonians were a separate ethnicity and that today's Macedonians have always been in the Balkans, and are largely descendants of the ancient Macedonians, this would probably engender war in the Balkans over Aegean Macedonia.

It would also change our view of Balkan history, and indeed, Mediterranean history. Can you imagine textbooks being rewritten with ideas that Alexander and Aristotle were so-called “Slavs”, and not Greeks.

Don't you think it is inferred, or is Macedonia not in the Balkans? Who are the numerous scholars that deny any similarities between the ancient and modern Balkan populations? What do they have to say? What are your thoughts on their opinions?

My honest opinion is that most scholars do not believe today's Balkan population descend from or have linguistic or cultural connections to the indigenous Balkan peoples. I have yet to find one serious Western scholar who believes today's Macedonians have similarities with the ancients. If you know of any, please by all means forward me links or cite me books and articles.

I am of the opinion that most Western scholars are ignorant and biased to and against our interpretation of history, which is to say, that we have pretty much always been in Macedonia and that we have inherited genetically, culturally, and possibly linguistically the ancient Macedonians. Not perfectly, as the Balkans are mixed, foreign words and customs are imported, but we inherit the ancients nonetheless.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Originally Posted by Constellation

The one in this thread. You edited it after I added the quote about some Macedonians identifying as Slavic. You then edited your post to reflect this quote. A small point, and trivial, and I do not want to waste my time with this anymore.

It is a small point but what you're suggesting is incorrect so you should drop it, otherwise I will pull you up for misleading readers by falsely indicating that I have denied something which I never have. By the way, in future you will include my username when quoting me as you do with others, as I do with you, at least for the first quote, so it can be clear who you're addressing.

Yes. I agree with Borza et al., but these same authors also believe modern day Macedonians arrived in the 6th century or so.

They're considered authorities on ancient Macedonians, not modern Macedonians. Their opinion on modern Macedonians is irrelevant.

If a consensus of scholars agreed that the ancient Macedonians were a separate ethnicity and that today's Macedonians have always been in the Balkans, and are largely descendants of the ancient Macedonians, this would probably engender war in the Balkans over Aegean Macedonia.

How do you figure?

Can you imagine textbooks being rewritten with ideas that Alexander and Aristotle were so-called “Slavs”, and not Greeks.

No, I can't, because referring to Alexander as a 'Slav' is anachronistic given that the term itself was recorded over 800 years after he passed away. Further, it would be incorrect to apply a broad linguistic appellation to an individual's ethnic identity. The same applies for Macedonians both ancient and modern.

My honest opinion is that most scholars do not believe today's Balkan population descend from or have linguistic or cultural connections to the indigenous Balkan peoples. I have yet to find one serious Western scholar who believes today's Macedonians have similarities with the ancients. If you know of any, please by all means forward me links or cite me books and articles.

It is you who keeps making the statement about "serious western scholars", so I will ask you again: Who are the numerous scholars that deny any similarities between the ancient and modern Balkan populations? Name some of them and show us where they deny any connection whatsoever.

[ramo]

Originally Posted by Constellation

My honest opinion is that most scholars do not believe today's Balkan population descend from or have linguistic or cultural connections to the indigenous Balkan peoples. I have yet to find one serious Western scholar who believes today's Macedonians have similarities with the ancients. If you know of any, please by all means forward me links or cite me books and articles.

Macedonians in 19 century considered ancient Macedonians as their ancestors. Many neighbor writers considered this to be the case also. Many western scholars also consider ancient macedonians and greeks as separate nations although they do not share the same opinion like the macedonians.

[George S.]

constellation how dare you bring up in question or suggest that we don't connect with the ancients.Just because others like greeks don't doesn't automatically mean were not.Also how dare you bring up scholars ???who diminute our very existence.You don't know the Macedonian modern struggle of Macedonians.If you knew your history and were Macedonian you wouldn't persist of denationalising the Macedonian people.Don't you think enough is enough.After all this I think you are not a Macedonian but anti Macedonian because you are smearing all with the same brush.