Ancient Gods, Myths & Descent

[makedonche]

Note from SoM: I have moved the discussion over to a new thread so the other one stays on topic. Plus, this is something that needs to be put out there and clarified.
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Indigen
Quick question for you my knowledgable colleague!
Is "The Argead Macedonian Dynasty" an accurate statement?
That would suggest that the Macedonian Royal house originated from Argios, according to the Greek version of events. According to Borza this is a contentious and yet to be proven fact.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Makedonche, the Argos that the Macedonian kings come from is not in the Peloponnese (which is what the myth is based on), but rather, it is Argos Orestikon in south-west Macedonia, which is located in the vicinity of today's Kostur region. This is how the myth was able to grow, basically a play on words, and a bit of opportunism by Alexander I and his buddy Herodotus.

[makedonche]

Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon

Makedonche, the Argos that the Macedonian kings come from is not in the Peloponnese (which is what the myth is based on), but rather, it is Argos Orestikon in south-west Macedonia, which is located in the vicinity of today's Kostur region. This is how the myth was able to grow, basically a play on words, and a bit of opportunism by Alexander I and his buddy Herodotus.

SoM
Many thanks for the clarification - any references or books I can look at regarding Argos Orestikon? save me ploughing through google etc.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Yeah, it is cited by Appian (2nd century AD), who says Argos in Orestis is where the Macedonian Argeads came from. I think there may also be reference to this by Pausanias and Strabo, but I can't confirm yet as I haven't checked it out. All of their texts are available on the net, but I don't have the specific chapter, page citations handy, sorry mate.

[makedonche]

Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon

Yeah, it is cited by Appian (2nd century AD), who says Argos in Orestis is where the Macedonian Argeads came from. I think there may also be reference to this by Pausanias and Strabo, but I can't confirm yet as I haven't checked it out. All of their texts are available on the net, but I don't have the specific chapter, page citations handy, sorry mate.

SoM
Thanks, will look into it in more detail!

[Soldier of Macedon]

And the myth of descent from Heracles was born.

[TrueMacedonian]

Let's start with Darrhon god of healing;


page 265

[TrueMacedonian]

Looking for good info on Zeirene the Macedonian Aphrodite if anyone can help.

[TrueMacedonian]

The following opinion is from William Tarn's 'Antigonos Gonatas' page 177

It is obvious that with the expansion of the dominant tribe, whatever its nationality, large Illyrian and Thracian elements must have been taken up into what subsequently was the Macedonian people. The Thracian element shows itself clearly in the Macedonian religion. The hellenizing kings brought in the Olympians; but these were not the gods of the people. Their pantheon can still be traced; in Greek eyes it was essentially Thracian; we may suspect that part of it, the water-worships at any rate, dates from before the Thracians and goes back to the Anatolian aborigines. Beside Sabazios-Dionysos, we find a whole group of obscure deities; Darron, the god of healing; Thaumos or Thaulos, the god of war; the Arantides, possibly his attendants; a local goddess of hunting, graecized as Artemis Gazoria; a strange god of sleep, Totoes; Bedu, the eponymous god of Edessa, identified now with the air, now with the water; the Sauadai or Thracian Seilenoi, old water spirits, afterwards made ministers of the god of wine. An inscription shows a Macedonian of Europos in the third century calling himself by the name of his Thracian god. The Illyrian element must be traced on other lines. The Macedonian capital of Pella was certainly an Illyrian foundation, as its old name Bounomos shows; and the same may be true of other towns also, though, except in the case of Pella, we know only the names which they bore in historical times.

[Pelister]

Thracian God/Macedonian God?

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...3&postcount=46

Here is some information about the Thracian god Zalmoxis from the Wikipedia article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zalmoxis

A number of etymologies have been given for the name. Diogenes Laertius (3rd century-4th century AD) claimed that Zalmoxis meant "bear skin". In his Vita Pythagorae, Porphyrius (3rd century) says that zalmon is the Thracian word for "hide" (τὴν γὰρ δορὰν οἱ Θρᾷκες ζαλμὸν καλοῦσιν). Hesychius (ca. 5th century) has zemelen (ζέμελεν) as a Phrygian word for "foreign slave".

The correct spelling of the name is also uncertain. Manuscripts of Herodotus' Historiae have all four spellings, viz. Zalmoxis, Salmoxis, Zamolxis, Samolxis, with a majority of manuscripts favouring Salmoxis. Later authors show a preference for Zamolxis. Hesychius quotes Herodotus, using Zalmoxis.

The -m-l- variant is favoured by those wishing to derive the name from a conjectured Thracian word for "earth", *zamol. Comparisons have also been made with the name of Zemelo, the Phrygian goddess of the earth, and with the Lithuanian chthonic god Zjameluks. However, this etymology is probably incorrect.

The -l-m- variant is admitted to be the older form and the correct form by the majority of Thracologists, as this is the form found in the older Herodotus manuscripts and other ancient sources. The -l-m- form is further attested in Daco-Thracian in Zalmodegikos, the name of a Getic King; and in Thracian zalmon, 'hide', and zelmis, 'hide' (PIE *kel-, 'to cover'; cf. English helm).

Later authors showed a preference to Zamol(xis) because it was probably most accurate. Although the banana who wrote this article claims that the etymology is 'probably incorrect', the invalid Slavic migration theory they evidently subscribe to shields them from stating the most obvious and closest cognate of ZAMOL(xis) to a modern tongue, which is ZEMJA/ZEMLJA/ZEMLE, present in the Slavic languages.