Who are the Slavs? - Citations and Sources

[Po-drum]

I don't get it.
What's the problem if macedonian language is part of slavic group of languages???

[Delodephius]

Originally Posted by julie

My past readings it was Macedonian influenced Russian via the Old Church Slavonic/Old Macedonian, St Clement in his missionary work as a student of Cyril and Methodius (it was not the Russians influencing the Macedonians there Delodephius.
St Clement set out to do this as the Apostle Paul came to Ohrid in 1AD to spread the gospel

Oh I'm not talking about that. I am very well aware of who spread OLD Church Slavonic to the rest of the Slavs, in fact I have a very detailed knowledge of that thank you very much. If you'll read my post carefully you'll see I mentioned that first.

What I'm talking about is that the liturgical language that is read today in Macedonian, as well as in the rest of Orthodox Slavic Churches, is the Russian recension of the Old Church Slavonic language, know subsequently as simply Church Slavonic.

Short history lesson:
After Cyril and Methodius brought the language to Great Moravia and modified it slightly to fit the Moravian pronunciation, this was the first recension of the language. In other words, the Moravians didn't use the exact Macedonian dialect in their service, but a slightly modified one, in essence an artificial dialect. The same thing happened when Old Church Slavonic was brought to Bulgaria, Serbia, Russia and Croatia. Over centuries these modifications grew more and more, and so they are referred to by the name of the language under which they were done. This was due to Old Church Slavonic being similar to the native language of the writers and copyists that they modified the language based on their own's pronunciation. So, since the 11th century AD, or so, we have Macedonian Church Slavonic, Bulgarian Church Slavonic, Serbian Church Slavonic, Croatian Church Slavonic, Russian Church Slavonic, and even Ukrainian Church Slavonic. What most people don't know therefore is that Old Church Slavonic is simply a stage of the development of Slavonic from 9th until 11th century AD, whence it was still pretty much the same language as that of the Macedonians in Solun. After that it evolved into various forms that were all artificial in nature. In all modern Orthodox Slavic-speaking churches the language they use is not Old Church Slavonic, not the language that St. Cyril and St. Methodius used to translate the Bible, not the Old Macedonian dialect. Old Church Slavonic is only taught to the clergy so they can read older copies of the books as well as to university students who went to study a Slavic language, usually a two semester course. The language they used in the church today is Church Slavonic. But what recension you may ask? Well, since about the late 18th century the Serbian church adopted the Russian recension of Church Slavonic, Bulgarian did in the 19th century, and the Macedonian church did as well, or better yet kept using it once it established itself as a separate autonomous Church. All however pronounce the Church Slavonic language in their own way. So we basically have a Old Macedonian language that went through a Russian modification of changed grammar and vocabulary and then again pronounced in Macedonian, but the modern dialect. I hope that makes sense, but its all true, you can look it up in any grammar of Church Slavonic, that's is its history in short.

[julie]

Originally Posted by Delodephius

Oh I'm not talking about that. I am very well aware of who spread OLD Church Slavonic to the rest of the Slavs, in fact I have a very detailed knowledge of that thank you very much. If you'll read my post carefully you'll see I mentioned that first.

What I'm talking about is that the liturgical language that is read today in Macedonian, as well as in the rest of Orthodox Slavic Churches, is the Russian recension of the Old Church Slavonic language, know subsequently as simply Church Slavonic.

Short history lesson:
After Cyril and Methodius brought the language to Great Moravia and modified it slightly to fit the Moravian pronunciation, this was the first recension of the language. In other words, the Moravians didn't use the exact Macedonian dialect in their service, but a slightly modified one, in essence an artificial dialect. The same thing happened when Old Church Slavonic was brought to Bulgaria, Serbia, Russia and Croatia. Over centuries these modifications grew more and more, and so they are referred to by the name of the language under which they were done. This was due to Old Church Slavonic being similar to the native language of the writers and copyists that they modified the language based on their own's pronunciation. So, since the 11th century AD, or so, we have Macedonian Church Slavonic, Bulgarian Church Slavonic, Serbian Church Slavonic, Croatian Church Slavonic, Russian Church Slavonic, and even Ukrainian Church Slavonic. What most people don't know therefore is that Old Church Slavonic is simply a stage of the development of Slavonic from 9th until 11th century AD, whence it was still pretty much the same language as that of the Macedonians in Solun. After that it evolved into various forms that were all artificial in nature. In all modern Orthodox Slavic-speaking churches the language they use is not Old Church Slavonic, not the language that St. Cyril and St. Methodius used to translate the Bible, not the Old Macedonian dialect. Old Church Slavonic is only taught to the clergy so they can read older copies of the books as well as to university students who went to study a Slavic language, usually a two semester course. The language they used in the church today is Church Slavonic. But what recension you may ask? Well, since about the late 18th century the Serbian church adopted the Russian recension of Church Slavonic, Bulgarian did in the 19th century, and the Macedonian church did as well, or better yet kept using it once it established itself as a separate autonomous Church. All however pronounce the Church Slavonic language in their own way. So we basically have a Old Macedonian language that went through a Russian modification of changed grammar and vocabulary and then again pronounced in Macedonian, but the modern dialect. I hope that makes sense, but its all true, you can look it up in any grammar of Church Slavonic, that's is its history in short.

Slovak, I don't need that condescending history lesson thank YOU very much, professor
Macedonians were the first to use old Church Slavonic, I did not realise I was not allowed to have input on your thread!

[Vangelovski]

Originally Posted by Delodephius

Oh I'm not talking about that. I am very well aware of who spread OLD Church Slavonic to the rest of the Slavs, in fact I have a very detailed knowledge of that thank you very much. If you'll read my post carefully you'll see I mentioned that first.

What I'm talking about is that the liturgical language that is read today in Macedonian, as well as in the rest of Orthodox Slavic Churches, is the Russian recension of the Old Church Slavonic language, know subsequently as simply Church Slavonic.

Short history lesson:
After Cyril and Methodius brought the language to Great Moravia and modified it slightly to fit the Moravian pronunciation, this was the first recension of the language. In other words, the Moravians didn't use the exact Macedonian dialect in their service, but a slightly modified one, in essence an artificial dialect. The same thing happened when Old Church Slavonic was brought to Bulgaria, Serbia, Russia and Croatia. Over centuries these modifications grew more and more, and so they are referred to by the name of the language under which they were done. This was due to Old Church Slavonic being similar to the native language of the writers and copyists that they modified the language based on their own's pronunciation. So, since the 11th century AD, or so, we have Macedonian Church Slavonic, Bulgarian Church Slavonic, Serbian Church Slavonic, Croatian Church Slavonic, Russian Church Slavonic, and even Ukrainian Church Slavonic. What most people don't know therefore is that Old Church Slavonic is simply a stage of the development of Slavonic from 9th until 11th century AD, whence it was still pretty much the same language as that of the Macedonians in Solun. After that it evolved into various forms that were all artificial in nature. In all modern Orthodox Slavic-speaking churches the language they use is not Old Church Slavonic, not the language that St. Cyril and St. Methodius used to translate the Bible, not the Old Macedonian dialect. Old Church Slavonic is only taught to the clergy so they can read older copies of the books as well as to university students who went to study a Slavic language, usually a two semester course. The language they used in the church today is Church Slavonic. But what recension you may ask? Well, since about the late 18th century the Serbian church adopted the Russian recension of Church Slavonic, Bulgarian did in the 19th century, and the Macedonian church did as well, or better yet kept using it once it established itself as a separate autonomous Church. All however pronounce the Church Slavonic language in their own way. So we basically have a Old Macedonian language that went through a Russian modification of changed grammar and vocabulary and then again pronounced in Macedonian, but the modern dialect. I hope that makes sense, but its all true, you can look it up in any grammar of Church Slavonic, that's is its history in short.

Thats nice. But when I go to church, both in Australia and in Macedonia, the service is in Modern Macedonian, not the Russian modifications of Old Macedonian or even Old Macedonian itself.

[Delodephius]

Originally Posted by julie

Slovak, I don't need that condescending history lesson thank YOU very much, professor
Macedonians were the first to use old Church Slavonic, I did not realise I was not allowed to have input on your thread!

http://www.keirsey.com/4temps/architect.asp

[julie]

SoM, would you be able to point out to your mate Slovak, the rules we need to abide by in relation to posting a link without any explanation as to what is about please

[Vangelovski]

Originally Posted by Delodephius

http://www.keirsey.com/4temps/architect.asp

Slovak, Julie has a point. No links without explanations.

[Delodephius]

What's in the link is the explanation on itself. I found it pointless to write one then.

[Vangelovski]

Originally Posted by Delodephius

What's in the link is the explanation on itself. I found it pointless to write one then.

If you don't write one, I'll find it pointless to keep your link. The rules apply to everyone.

[Soldier of Macedon]

That rule only applies for those who create new threads and only post a link.