Macedonian Think tank!

[makedonche]

Originally Posted by freifrau

Makedonche,for God's shake, i am not proposing anything!
The issue wasnt solved for 20 years,i can't solve it passing from a forum
I just wonder if that could be accepted.
I mean,this seems to me some 90% close to the Macedonian prespective (i may be wrong or not..that's my view) ,as long as Macedonia holds on negotiating.

I mean,when a country is on negotiating table for 20 years,when all the elected governments do not draw from it,then for me sounds logical,that they want a profitable compromise.
The government and subsequently the majority of the people who continue voting for them.

If the prespective was "Macedonia-Macedonians-Macedonian language" with no compromise at all,they would have left the conversation immediately.
This is the message i get.
Cold hard facts..

Or am i wrong ?

FF
You are proposing something - that we compromise, because it's been going on for 20 years. Perhaps you can't solve it passing from a forum, but can you at least accept my position and my right to self determination - and the next time you are in discussion with friends/politicians/scholars, point out to them what my position is as a true Macedonian and also point out Greece's position and how wrong it is - maybe if enough people in the right places do this I might actually have my position acknowledged and accepted and be afforded the basic human right to self determination!
The only thing that could be "accepted" is the unalienable right to self determination.
As for negotiating for 20 years - there hasn't been any negotiating, there has been Greece's demands and Macedonia's refusal to bow to them!
As for the government - they are elected to run the country and as such have no authority to change the people's identity - whilst they may have some manipulative resources at their disposal due to being in power at the time and may have influence over people's opinions by various means, they still don't have the people's authority to change their identity!
The message is "Macedonia - Macedonians - Macedonian Language" and they haven't fully capitulated/compromised, they haven't negotiated anything, proof of this is that the problem Greece has is still there and they are still demanding geographic qualifiers and all sorts of rubbish, they can't leave the conversation because there is still the acronym in current use that needs to be removed! You have the cold hard facts according to you, I have the truth - lets see which prevails!

[Soldier of Macedon]

Originally Posted by freifrau

Makedonche,for God's shake, i am not proposing anything!

Have you been pretending to be Macedonian?

The only people I have ever seen use 'shake' instead of 'sake' (aside from the fact that the spelling is wrong), are Greeks, mainly because of pronounciation. You are a Greek, are you not? Be honest and don't insult my intelligence, liars are afforded little respect here, and you will not be an exemption.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Originally Posted by freifrau

Bratot..what if it is officialy agreed the following:

Vardar Macedonia -> Macedonians ->Macedonian Language ???

So, you are Greek, or a traitor.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Funnily enough, I watched a SDS advertisement celebrating 20 something years of treacherous existence, and there is a young man stating that he belongs to the party and that SDS is completely against a name change. Yet, most of their politicians, past and present, have indicated otherwise. Even the traitors of Macedonia take you Greeks for a ride.

[freifrau]

Originally Posted by makedonche

FF
You are proposing something - that we compromise, because it's been going on for 20 years.

nop nop nop.
I am just telling that there are only 2 ways.
1 to negotiate.
2 to leave negotiations.

If the Macedonian citizens do not wish negotiation they should press their government to leave them once an for all,declare to the world that they would never compromise and that is all.

I think i made my point clearer.

Perhaps you can't solve it passing from a forum, but can you at least accept my position and my right to self determination - and the next time you are in discussion with friends/politicians/scholars, point out to them what my position is as a true Macedonian and also point out Greece's position and how wrong it is - maybe if enough people in the right places do this I might actually have my position acknowledged and accepted and be afforded the basic human right to self determination!
The only thing that could be "accepted" is the unalienable right to self determination.

I already stated my personal view which does not really differ from what you state.

I have already participated in such conversations during my stay in the far south Europe..but normally they all ended up with some rakija/tsipuro and laughs.

As for negotiating for 20 years - there hasn't been any negotiating, there has been Greece's demands and Macedonia's refusal to bow to them!

When two parts sit on a table and a mediator makes 3 proposals for a new name of a country..that is negotiations.

[freifrau]

Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon

Have you been pretending to be Macedonian?

The only people I have ever seen use 'shake' instead of 'sake' (aside from the fact that the spelling is wrong), are Greeks, mainly because of pronounciation. You are a Greek, are you not? Be honest and don't insult my intelligence, liars are afforded little respect here, and you will not be an exemption.

Have i ever said i am Macedonian ?

Another told me that i am a Bulgarian and also found my full name..
(also making some strange logical conclusion freifrau=baron-ness in German.. (what ???!?) and baron was a Bulgarian in another forum....usw... )

It becomes a bit paranoid...

PS-Actually in German it could be "schake" lol.

[freifrau]

Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon

So, you are Greek, or a traitor.

I guess you live in a world that only Greeks and traitors exist!

[Bratot]

Guys, lets keep this thread clean, preferably without ad hominem arguments.

FreiFrau your positions are little too symptomatic on this issue and having big experience dealing all kinds of propagators we do have a right to suspect when some "German" person gets interested in Macedonian forum focusing stricly on this problem.
I also share the view that it's quite imposible to take you for real on this since you did showed specific interest in anti-macedonian solution.

[freifrau]

Originally Posted by Bratot

Guys, lets keep this thread clean, preferably without ad hominem arguments.

FreiFrau your positions are little too symptomatic on this issue and having big experience dealing all kinds of propagators we do have a right to suspect when some "German" person gets interested in Macedonian forum focusing stricly on this problem.
I also share the view that it's quite imposible to take you for real on this since you did showed specific interest in anti-macedonian solution.

Bratot,firstly i am not interested only in politics but also in culture/ethnology but unfortunately there aren't many conversations on that matters in this forum.

Second..what is the "anti-macedonian solution" ??
As far as i have read your prev. posts ,i believe that at least you and 2-3 other members can read and understand an argumentation.

I said that for me there shouldn't be any such a problem and Macedonia,clear and only should be the name.....

Is this pro-greek,anti-macedonian,pro-bulgarian,pro-traitor....?

On the other hand you must understand you live in a real world.
In this world exist UN, USA, EU, NATO ...politicians,politics, economy ,war... usw.
I don't have another proposition or whatever...my personal view is krystalclear -I just wonder about the views of the others ,that's why mostly i entered here (and of course to find matterial,link and so for my area of interest ,which i didnt so far)

I am really interested in the opinion of the others and that is all.
Some people here are really immature -they could be children i think..
Some go further more being rude and insulting.
Some are extreme nationalists and racists.

Do you believe that this is a good advertisement for the Macedonian people?
Is this an image you like ?

[Rogi]

Originally Posted by freifrau

I am really interested in the opinion of the others and that is all.
Some people here are really immature -they could be children i think..
Some go further more being rude and insulting.
Some are extreme nationalists and racists.

Yet, those are the only posts that you seem to respond to. My earlier post is neither immature, nor rude and insulting, nor is it based on any extreme nationalism or racism. Perhaps you ignored it because it was well-reasoned?

freifrau,

Whilst you have just generalised about the people of this forum, and by extension the Macedonian people, you have blatantly ignored my post on page 6 of this thread which I would argue does not fit into the sweeping generalisations you have just made and you have also disregarded what I have clarified for you about the inappropriateness of your inconsiderate use of the word 'compromise' to term something entirely different.