"Prior to 1865, Vlachs everywhere in the Peloponnese"

[Amphipolis]

Originally Posted by Carlin

Thanks.

1688 report regarding Vlachs in Patras region, northern Peloponnese (Vlach inhabitants of villages Lopes, Komi, Gierpesi, Mouriki).

Actually the document calls these newcomers "Albanian Vlachs", then "prementioned Albanians" and then again "Albanian Vlachs".

[Carlin]

Originally Posted by Amphipolis

Actually the document calls these newcomers "Albanian Vlachs", then "prementioned Albanians" and then again "Albanian Vlachs".

Yes. The parts of the text that I highlighted, and as you explained, clearly state that these Vlachs are Albanian Vlachs.

[Carlin]

I'd like to share the following quote, in full.

Mémoires de la Société Ethnologique, 1841 - Page 99:

"Des Valaques se sont établis sur les montagnes de l'Arcadie, et leur langue, mêlée de grec moderne, est en usage dans une partie de la population. Les bergers de ces montagnes sont meme designes par le nom de ce peuple, en sorte qu'on a pu croire, et l'on croit en effet qu'ils ne descendent pas des anciens Arcadiens, mais des Valaques. Vous pensez bien que je ne pouvais admettre cette opinion. M. de Stackelberg a reconnu qu'on trouvait parmi eux beaucoup de figures semblables a celles des veritables Grecs; et M. de Brondsted m'a assure qu'il avait vu les belles formes du type grec pour le moins aussi souvent chez les bergers d'Arcadie que chez les Mainotes, qui representent les anciens Lacedemoniens."

Translation:

"Vlachs have settled on the mountains of Arcadia, and their language, mingled with modern Greek, is in use in a part of the population. The shepherds of these mountains are even designated by the name of this people, so that one may believe, and it is believed that they do not descend from the ancient Arcadians, but from the Vlachs. You do not think I could accept that opinion. M. de Stackelberg has admitted that many of them were found to be similar to those of the true Greeks; And M. de Brondsted assured me that he had seen the beautiful forms of the Greek type at least as often with the shepherds of Arcadia as with the Mainotes, who represent the ancient Lacedemonians."

[tchaiku]

The fact that there is so little written about Vlachs in Peloponnese seems so obscure to me. What happened to Lower Walachia in Achaea?

[Carlin]

Originally Posted by tchaiku

The fact that there is so little written about Vlachs in Peloponnese seems so obscure to me. What happened to Lower Walachia in Achaea?

It fell out of use (like so many other names, terms or appellations throughout history).

The following comes from Hê herôis tês hellênikês espanastaseôs: êtoi skênai en Helladi (1821-1828), By Stéfanos Th Xénos, Chatzigeorgíou-Chasióti. On page 417, it is stated that the Vlachs came to Greece (Ελλάδα) in the 10th century.

Top of Page 417: "...οι Βλάχοι οι ελθόντες τον δέκατον αιώνα εις την Ελλάδα."

URL:
https://books.google.ca/books?id=-vv...%CE%B1&f=false

[Carlin]

Who were the Skythians (or even Skythi-Slavs) who settled in Greece and throughout the Peloponnese? Were these term(s) used exclusively for real Slavs? Let's take a look.

[Carlin]

The Demographic Structure of Λιοντάρι or Karytaina according to the Ottomans

"The Christians were Romioi, but also Arvanites and Vlachs." There were also some Muslims and Jews.

(Who were the Romioi though?)

We see that the area called Λιοντάρι in the first records, in the time of Selim I (1512-1520), is called Karytaina in the records kept in the Ottoman Archives in Constantinople. These records no longer have ethnic identities for farmers as before. For the Christians, the term 'gebran' is used and for Muslim the term 'Müslim'. However, from time to time we see as in the first records terms such as 'an cemaat-i eflagan' for the Vlachs, 'Çingenegan' for the Gypsies and 'Yahudiyan' for the Jews.

[Carlin]

Originally Posted by tchaiku

There are some documents referring to Vlachs in Thessaly and Epirus, even in 19th century. I can't find anything about Peloponnese, there might have been some unrecognized Vlachs but if they formed the absolute majority how come there is nearly nothing written about them?

I am quite open to revise and update my own 'beliefs' and 'misconceptions' regarding this or any other historical topic.

It would be great if you can continue to provide additional testimonies regarding the presence of Albanians in the Peloponnese.

[Carlin]

List of the most important captains of the Peloponnese -1821
http://www.kwr.gr/2016/03/1821.html

1) A special reference is made by Fotakos to the clergymen who formed and led military bodies in the battles, as well as to the "Vlachs" ("vlachopoimenes") nomadic Roumeliotes, who lived for generations in Morea and contributed militarily to the battles and financially offering animals from their flocks.

2) Vlachopoimenes (nomadic Roumeliotes in Morea)

1. Βασίλειος Μπούτος, Βίλια Δερβενοχωριών
2. Μακρυγιάννης, από βουνό Σαϊτά
3. Γιάννης Μπακογιάννης, Γαστούνη-Ξερόκαμπος Καλαβρύτων
4. Κώστας Λάβδας και Γεώργ. Λάβδας
5. γενεά Κουτουλαίων, Μήτρος, Δήμος και Κωνσταντής
6. Κώστας Τσόλης, ή Ράπτης
7. αδελφοί Καλπαίνη, Χρήστος και Κώστας
8. Δημήτριος Σαρανταυγάς, από βουνό Σαϊτά
9. Παπουτσήδες, Βασίλειος και γενεά, από βουνό Κανδήλας
10. γενεά Καλυβαίων, από βουνό Γκιόζα
11. γενεά Φραγκογανναίων, υπό τον Κωνσταντούλα Φραγκογιάννη, από βουνό Γκιόζα
12. γενεά Κορδυλαίων, Γιάννης και Κυριαζής, από βουνό Ζήριας
13. γενεά Χαναίων, υπό τον Θανάση Χανιά, από βουνό Ζήριας
14. Θανάσης Λύγκας, από Μυστρά
15. Γεώργιος Κοτσαλής, από Ξερόκαμπο Καλαβρύτων
16. Ραφτομήτρος, από Ξερόκαμπο Καλαβρύτων
17. Χρήστος Καψής, από Ξερόκαμπο Καλαβρύτων
18. Μαμαλαίοι

The map also indicates the locations of Arvanite-speakers (in red and underlined), as well as of Muslim Bardouniotes (who were Albanian-speaking Muslims, in green and underlined).

[Carlin]

Slavs and Vlachs in Arcadia

URL:
http://proinosmorias.gr/2013/04/10/m...petnrida-2013/

"In the 6th part (pp. 173-256), there are plenty of extraordinary works: the history of the Peloponnese (Κώστα Μ. Σταμάτη), .... , the Slavs and Vlachs in Arcadia (Βασ. Χαραλαμπόπουλου), on the descent of Arvanites to the Peloponnese (Χρ. Γ. Ρώμα) ..."