Investing/Stocks

[Gocka]

Originally Posted by Risto the Great

I will never invest in Chinese stocks. But I understand how people can make money out of them. "Luckin Coffee" pretty much sums up China for me.

No doubt you have to be careful because many of their companies are downright scams. On the other hand its an emerging super power with 4.5x the population of the next biggest economy and a rising standard of living. Developed markets are producing ever decreasing returns.

Some of the well known companies like JD, BABA, NIO, TENCENT, are all good investments.

[Risto the Great]

The only difference is that the CCP can do whatever it wants with the companies. You mentioned BABA as in Ali Baba I assume. I believe I read the CCP had something to do with Jack Ma relinquishing his shares. Tencent may as well be the CCP. It is a communist country, take the money and run (as fast as a Chinese gambler in Macao).

[Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Gocka

...In the next week short TSLA. Valued more than GM, FORD, TOYOTA, and CHRYSLER Combined! Those companies sell over 20,000,000 cars annually, Tesla can't even sell 1/2 a million. Stock market is in severe bubble territory.

I think the market has quite a bit of respect for Musk's entrepreneurship and to deliver technological innovation in relatively short timeframes as he has shown with Space X (and Tesla)

Both the car industry and rocket technology have been monopolised by the same players...the car companies have always been reluctant to invest in new technologies and NASA is beholden to government funding and constant budget cuts.
Musk has changed this paradigm and shown that it can be done, quicker and cheaper, it appears he has a far more nimble and dynamic business model than the lumbering car guys and the rocket scientists at NASA...entrepreneurship, engineering smarts and outside of the square thinking without being chained to legacy practices might be his point of difference.

The future of people transport is total autonomous vehicles, there is no other alternative...Tesla has a head start on the rest when it comes to this technology, perhaps that's why the market places Tesla at a premium to the legacy companies, who largely have an appalling record for reinvention...

[Gocka]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

I think the market has quite a bit of respect for Musk's entrepreneurship and to deliver technological innovation in relatively short timeframes as he has shown with Space X (and Tesla)

Both the car industry and rocket technology have been monopolised by the same players...the car companies have always been reluctant to invest in new technologies and NASA is beholden to government funding and constant budget cuts.
Musk has changed this paradigm and shown that it can be done, quicker and cheaper, it appears he has a far more nimble and dynamic business model than the lumbering car guys and the rocket scientists at NASA...entrepreneurship, engineering smarts and outside of the square thinking without being chained to legacy practices might be his point of difference.

The future of people transport is total autonomous vehicles, there is no other alternative...Tesla has a head start on the rest when it comes to this technology, perhaps that's why the market places Tesla at a premium to the legacy companies, who largely have an appalling record for reinvention...

Elon Musk is a con man and a damn good one at that.

Tesla has been at it for 17 years and has yet to turn a profit. With out billions of dollars of free money they received from various sources over the years they would have been bankrupt many times over. They have received land grants, tax incentives, multiple rounds of stock sales, 30 billion worth of loans, buyers of their vehicles are eligible for large tax credits in most countries, they sell ZEV credits to other manufactures because they can;t meet emissions standards, and they still can not sell cars or make money. Give me 17 years and about a 100 billion in support and I might just make an unprofitable company as well.

The one thing I can give him credit for is getting legacy automakers to take EV's seriously. Other than that he is a con man through and through. His claims of autonomous vehicles has not only been a lie but deadly. A German court ruled this week that they can not advertise autopilot on their cars because it is nothing more than glorified cruise control. He constantly makes grandiose promises to hype up the stock price and when they don't come to fruition he just comes up with new promises to keep the hype going.

The build quality on their vehicles is garbage. Flaking paint, misaligned panels, bumpers that fall off after getting wet, steering wheels have come off, seats not being bolted down, spontaneous combustion, and doors that won't open in the event of a fire.

Almost 20 years in and they can not make a reliable affordable EV and ironically all of their hype got legacy automakers to move up their timelines significantly and they will most likely achieve all the things Tesla has not. The only decent care Tesla built was the model S, and at 100 - 120k thats not saying much. When you can do it for 20k i'll be impressed.

Taking everything into account Tesla as a company can not be worth 320 billion dollars, the value of the next 3 or 4 biggest automakers combined. A publicly traded company must be a viable business. Sooner or later if you can not produce the numbers you will go bankrupt. Tesla is closer to going bankrupt then running half the auto industry out of business. I've looked over their financials every quarter and there are some very suspicious practices. They play around with their payable at the end of quarters, they recognize revenue for products like autopilot that they haven't delivered yet, they don't allocate much money to warranty claims, their R&D costs have gone down despite supposedly researching new battery tech, designing a Semi, and a pickup truck, building a new factory in China, and planning one in Germany. Without ZEV credit sales they would lose a couple billion a year, the problem is as other automakers electrify their fleet, the value of ZEV credits will come to 0. The biggest red flag is that Elon Musks pay package is linked 100% to the performance of TESLA STOCK, not Tesla profitability. So he has a vested interest in pumping up the value of the stock. Despite all that he is set to be the richest man in the world running a company for 20 years that has yet to have a profitable year. Something just doesn't add up. Oh and Tesla paid Elon Musk so that he could personally insure the board of directors.


Mark this post, Tesla will go bankrupt one day, and Elon Musk may be indicted for fraud.

[Risto the Great]

Originally Posted by Risto the Great

The only difference is that the CCP can do whatever it wants with the companies. You mentioned BABA as in Ali Baba I assume. I believe I read the CCP had something to do with Jack Ma relinquishing his shares. Tencent may as well be the CCP. It is a communist country, take the money and run (as fast as a Chinese gambler in Macao).

https://www.smh.com.au/world/asia/ch...18-p55d8t.html

Hong Kong: Chinese regulators will assume control of nine financial firms linked to a billionaire financier who was taken from a hotel in Hong Kong by Chinese authorities in 2017 and hasn't been seen in public since.

Xiao Jianhua, a Chinese-born Canadian financier and a student leader at the time of 1989 pro-democracy protests, has been missing since early 2017 when he was taken from his room at the Four Seasons in Hong Kong.

At the time there were fears he may have been abducted by Chinese agents. His disappearance and that of several booksellers provoked outrage that Beijing was flouting Hong Kong's constitution.

A full front-page advertisement published under Xiao's name in Hong Kong's Ming Pao newspaper shortly after said he was seeking medical treatment "outside the country" and had not been abducted.

Among the companies being taken over include Huaxia Life, Tianan Life Insurance, Tianan Property Insurance, New Times Trust, Yi'An Property Insurance, and New China Trust, the China Banking and Insurance Regulatory Commission said in a statement on its website.

All nine are linked to Tomorrow Group, the investment conglomerate owned by Xiao. The firms are among more than 40 financial institutions identified by New Fortune Magazine in a 2017 article as being part of Xiao's network.

The three broking and futures entities were seized for hiding the identity of their ultimate owner or their real holdings, as well as poor corporate governance, the securities regulator said.

Tomorrow Group invested primarily in financial services and used shell companies to control many of its assets. Before his disappearance, the Hurun Report of China's richest people said Xiao, was part of a fortune estimated at almost $US6 billion ($8.6 billion).

The takeover won't change the firms' debt obligations or creditor rights, and business operations will continue as normal. Also going into state custody will be Guosheng Securities, New Times Securities and Guosheng Futures, the securities regulator said in a separate statement.

Chinese authorities are stepping up their bid to maintain financial stability as COVID-19 proves ruinous for economic growth and soured loans pile up. Beijing seized control of Baoshang Bank —another company linked to Xiao — in May last year citing its "serious" credit risks.

Last month, regulators were said to be mulling increased oversight of Huaxia Life, including sending a group of executives from state-owned China Life Insurance Group to assist. Insurers' earnings have been under pressure, and the coronavirus pandemic has only exacerbated that.

"This is certainly a move in the right direction" in terms of containing financial risk and warning peers of wrongdoing, said Steven Lam, an analyst with Bloomberg Intelligence. "The authorities are also being more transparent by telling the market 'We know there are bad apples, and we're taking care of them'."

The CBIRC said in its statement that authorities would seek market-oriented restructurings for the six insurance and trust firms and the bottom line is to avoid any systematic financial risks.

In 2018, China's central bank identified Tomorrow as one of several "financial holding companies" that need to be scrutinised in their ownership structure, related transactions and source of funding.

"Some financial holding companies, mainly those formed by investments of non-financial enterprises, have been expanding blindly into the financial industry," the People's Bank of China said at the time. "There has been a regulatory vacuum, and risks are accumulating and being exposed continuously."

I would do the same, but then again .... I'm a control freak.

[Carlin]

"Tanks are being put on the streets in China to protect the banks. This is because the Henan branch of the Bank of China declaring that people's savings in their branch are now 'investment products' and can't be withdrawn."

Video:
https://mobile.twitter.com/WallStree...90086656581640

[kompir]

China can't keep a lid on the bank runs anymore... this is just the pre-game entertainment

[Carlin]

Elon Musk took control and immediately fired Twitter's CEO, the CFO, and the head of legal policy, trust, and safety — WaPo

[Risto the Great]

Not a moment too soon.

[Carlin]

Originally Posted by Risto the Great

Not a moment too soon.

Musk started the purges...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dai...utside-HQ.html