Macedonia last in Europe by quality of life

[Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Karposh

...Now, back to these clowns from Boston who have compiled these results, does anyone really put any credence to what these idiots have decided the well-being scores of the countries of Europe should be? How did they measure these scores? What were the indicators? Actually, first, let’s ask ourselves what is well-being? It is a state of mind isn’t it? It is about being happy with life. However, what makes me happy might not be the same for you or somebody else. There are many indicators of happiness: Satisfaction and contentment with life; Enjoyment; Pleasure; Security; Comfort; Prosperity; Success; Fortune; Welfare; Quality of life – to name a few.....

Call me a left-leaning conspiracy kook but I seriously can't take anything produced in the USA as being reliable or without a disingenuous political agenda at play.
The American's refuse to abandon the Cold War, any country that hasn't committed to a Faustian pact with the US is systematically denigrated and such 'studies' with their ratings serve the purpose to highlight the benefit of the Western model over other models in general and the very delusion of American exceptionalism...

[Vangelovski]

To be honest, I think the score given to Macedonia is overly generous. I would have scored it much lower. The place is on par with the third world. Literally nothing works the way its meant to. It has a long way to go.

[Amphipolis]

Taking a deeper look at the data in the link of post#1, it seems you also have a bad equality index comparing to Europe or even the rest of the Balkans. That was quite a surprise for me. Any ideas or explanations?



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ncome_equality

[Karposh]

No need for any explanations Amphipolis. Just accept it. It is what it is. The Republic of Macedonia, sorry FYRoM, is a shithole that will remain that way indefinitely…Apparently. Please, don’t stop there Amphipolis. Keep digging, I’m sure you’ll find more shit on that God forsaken place. And make sure to post it here when you find it, so you can share it with all of us and spread the truth. The so-called Macedonians are no good and all cowards and don’t deserve to take some pride in their old homeland. But, on the bright side, now that we are all ashamed of that miserable old place, we can all take solace in the fact that most of us Fyromians live in the diaspora and can forget about that shithole once and for all. Life is sweet here. My well-being index is off the charts.

But, on a much brighter note, I’m sure the problem will soon disappear. Now, that the Fyromians have made such a complete mess of the place, thank God we have the Albanians just waiting on the side lines and ready to pick up where we have left off and make it smell like roses.

[Amphipolis]

To Phoenix, Vangelovski, Karposh

I think your approach is wrong. You should be cooler and more pragmatic with admitting the situation and dealing with it. As I already said, the situation is certainly NOT that bad (which doesn’t mean it’s good either). These indices and reports are semi-scientific; they should be studied with interest and not be rejected or blindly accepted especially when the index or the method is a new one, not an established one.

Unfortunately, things don’t change easily (for the better); they can change quickly only for the worse (Ukraine, Syria). Russia and Turkey are good exceptions. Turkey had an unprecedented economic growth under Erdogan and even reached EU levels, a thing I would dogmatically consider impossible back in the 90s, especially for a vast country with so many problems, drawbacks and contradictions.

Living in Greece that deals with all kinds of (additional) problems lately, I often have to see similar reports or foreign estimations from various institutions. I like statistics and it’s interesting to feel and live the problem first (in Greece), and then see it translated and certified in figures.

I suggest you follow all indices and reports and antagonize with countries of the same size and background (Albania, Kosovo, Armenia, Slovenia and all three Baltic States) for every single detail in society and economy.

[DraganOfStip]

Originally Posted by Karposh

No need for any explanations Amphipolis. Just accept it. It is what it is. The Republic of Macedonia, sorry FYRoM, is a shithole that will remain that way indefinitely…Apparently. Please, don’t stop there Amphipolis. Keep digging, I’m sure you’ll find more shit on that God forsaken place. And make sure to post it here when you find it, so you can share it with all of us and spread the truth. The so-called Macedonians are no good and all cowards and don’t deserve to take some pride in their old homeland. But, on the bright side, now that we are all ashamed of that miserable old place, we can all take solace in the fact that most of us Fyromians live in the diaspora and can forget about that shithole once and for all. Life is sweet here. My well-being index is off the charts.
But, on a much brighter note, I’m sure the problem will soon disappear. Now, that the Fyromians have made such a complete mess of the place, thank God we have the Albanians just waiting on the side lines and ready to pick up where we have left off and make it smell like roses.

Well,for someone who wrote that didn't want to pick a keyboard fight with me,you sure made good use of some of my own words and incorporated them beautifully in this sarcastic interpretation of my views as allegedly replying to Amphipolis.Nice one.

On the other hand,the majority of your countrymen would find it insulting that you referred to them as "Fyromians" and to the Republic as "Fyrom",even though you yourself are a member of this forum which,to use your own words," tries very hard to seek out and promote all that is good and positive with Macedonia".A very good and positive remark from you indeed.

Unlike your last post,whatever I have to say to someone I say it to their face.So yes,what I'm writing is directed to you Karposh.
You as well made it clear that you don't like my posts because they're too negative and pesimistic.And that's fine.But that's your problem,not mine.It won't stop me from posting updates regarding my (and your) motherland now and in future.You'll just have to come at peace with that.Believe me,i don't like it any more than you do.But like i said,if I post otherwise,I would be a liar.I sincerely hope that the situation will improve soon enough and my tone would then change.But don't be so optimistic.
All the best mate,don't take this post as an attack on you personally,I'm sure you're a good Macedonian that loves his country,but you seem to have a problem with accepting reality.A reality that no Macedonian likes for sure.As I said in my previous post to you,if you don't have the stomach for my posts,please do feel free to skip them,I won't be offended.Peace out brother.

[Philosopher]

Originally Posted by Gocka

I think they call it a "crutch"

A country is an abstract concept, so if your problem (the country) is some abstract thing, then you never have to actually try to do something about it, you can always blame it without ever having to address it, because its out of your control. If you have a problem with a specific person, then you would address him or her accordingly, if your problem is a thing you can see and touch, again you would deal with it. People do it all the time in life, we have all done it at some point. We blame some random thing for all our problems to avoid solving them, at some point most people realize that thing is not really their problem, and even if it is, then their is always a solution, maybe just not the convenient one.

Macedonians think that only their country has problems, meanwhile half the world is in utter chaos, while most of them sit around at their local cafe complaining how bad it is.

My vindication came this past year when I helped my uncle get residency and immigrate to the USA. He had been here once in the late 90's (a very prosperous time) to work, but he was here illegally, didn't pay taxes or go through the usual channels like most Americans. He saved a lot of money while living with my family. We fed him, drove him around, my mom did is laundry, he worked construction for my dads company, got paid more than he was worth. He made off like a bandit. Fast forward to 2016. This time he came with my aunt as well. They are miserable, my aunt says she regrets ever leaving her village. She asks is this the famous America we all heard about? He now has to pay rent, health insurance, payroll taxes, buy food, pay utilities, buy a car, pay car insurance, file income taxes. He makes less money now then he did nearly 20 years ago working the same job. Life is complicated stressful and the money hardly pays the bills. They live in a studio apartment that frankly is hardly considered humane to live in. Its dirty flea infested and you an piss from one end to the other. They have no where to go nothing to do, and no money to show for it.

A lot of these Macedonians go to foreign countries, live in a very specific way that enables them to save lots of money without putting down roots. Then they go back to Macedonia with relatively a lot of money and think they were just in the promise land. Yet when they actually immigrate legally, put down roots and have to be part of the system like everyone else, they hate it and want to go back.

Its easy to live anywhere if you do it off the backs off people who are already rooted and subsidize you in one way or another. You cant immigrate anywhere in the world and just start from scratch and expect to live well.

Whats sad to me is so many Macedonians hold on to this dream of the promise land, that most will never reach, and they waist their whole life never taking action in Macedonia, and trying to make the best of that country. The few who actually make it abroad are few and far between. It also doesn't help when stupid American and Australian tourists go to Macedonia and like to brag and show off. Most of them are spending the few pennies they managed to save all year and go back to more meager conditions then they let on.

Personally I pity Dragan, because I have been there, I have also had crutches in my life, and blamed others for my short comings in life. Eventually when you realize most of the problem is yourself, you will be amazed at how much is actually under your control should you be brave enough to pursue it.

To say there are no successful people in Macedonia is a falsehood. I know a formally poor girl who started a marketing business from scratch. Now is supporting herself and her extended family and killing it. No political connections, no bullshit, just hard work and perseverance. Her story is not unique. The "country" never stopped her from achieving success.

To summarize, all the negativity toward Macedonia is only a way to cope with and justify his inability to get ahead, (no offence meant).

It will pass, and if he opens his eyes a little wider he will succeed.

Very poignant...and very true Gocka.

I couldn't have put it better myself.

[Risto the Great]

Successful people exist everywhere. Plants grow everywhere. But some places are simply more fertile than others. Macedonia has a political system and cultural mentality that remains a hindrance to its development.

I accept Dragan's perspective. It's crushingly real and is painful to read. Macedonia should be better than this by now.

[Gocka]

I for one certainly dont deny that the reality in Macedonia is bleak, I think with or without Dragan's commentary we all know how bad it is and have known for some time. What I have seen very little of from Dragan, and other like minded Macedonians, is solutions whether on a grands scale, or even on a personal level. Macedonia is ripe with opportunity for savvy entrepreneurs.

Simply constantly commenting on how bad it is, will never improve the country nor his own situation. The years you spend lamenting where you happen to live, if even a fraction of that time is spent being proactive, I am certain a better life can be had, especially in Macedonia where to bar is so low. I dont think anyone is rejecting Dragan's reality, but just as with the problems with politicians, at what point are you expected to act? How long can you keep complaining about the same things without attempting to change them, or are you waiting for someone else to do it for you?

I feel bad for Dragan and we can pity Dragan and all Macedonians all day long, is that going to help him or anyone else? Just as you would with your own kids, at some point you have to push them and demand they get up of their ass and do something about it.

I would much rather have him pissed at me and hopefully angry enough to take action, then just shell out empty empathy that will get him no where. Frankly its much easier to just say yea that really sucks I understand, and move on.

Originally Posted by Risto the Great

Successful people exist everywhere. Plants grow everywhere. But some places are simply more fertile than others. Macedonia has a political system and cultural mentality that remains a hindrance to its development.

I accept Dragan's perspective. It's crushingly real and is painful to read. Macedonia should be better than this by now.

[Risto the Great]

Originally Posted by Gocka

Frankly its much easier to just say yea that really sucks I understand, and move on.

It does suck and we both understand.
And we in the Diaspora are the result of people who said it sucked, understood it and subsequently chose to leave Macedonia behind.

Personally, I find it hypocritical to be critical! The Macedonians will be rewarded for their efforts or lack of efforts. It certainly is up to them to forge their destiny. It really needs to become something more than personal for them. The struggle is real and should bind Macedonians far more than it has at this point. It really astounds me that Macedonia has not improved at all over the last 20 years.

I can't help feeling sorry for our brothers and sisters over there and hope they develop a solution for themselves that includes remaining there (as Macedonians).