Football Thread!

[Bill77]

Vardar supporter looses his hand by a exploding police stun grenade!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=share&v=2l8-uDKk6Ss

[Momce Makedonce]

Originally Posted by Bill77

Vardar supporter looses his hand by a exploding police stun grenade!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=share&v=2l8-uDKk6Ss

Shocking stuff. I dont know how he remained that calm after his hand just got blown off, I think I would have passed out !

[George S.]

hey guys this is the only thread the last bastion thread that hasn't been polluted by constellation.Good thing I don't intend a jinx that he hasn't come across telling them about football.

[EgejskaMakedonia]

That cop is an idiot for throwing a stun grenade in such a small and compact area. There were protests about police brutality a few years ago, and it looks like this latest incident has sparked a bit of an uproar again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWJw...ature=youtu.be

[Risto the Great]

That was utterly horrific!

[DraganOfStip]

Originally Posted by EgejskaMakedonia

That cop is an idiot for throwing a stun grenade in such a small and compact area. There were protests about police brutality a few years ago, and it looks like this latest incident has sparked a bit of an uproar again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWJw...ature=youtu.be

Not that I support the police or anything,but we're far from a civilized cheering for our clubs.The ultras are known here to be very hostille and agresive,and in most cases they are the ones that provoke a police intervention during matches.
Especially "Komiti" are known to have members with big criminal records and there is hardly a match that goes by without them being involved in some kind of an incident.
So before jumping into conclusions,here are 3 possible scenarios about what happened:

1.As you stated,a policeman threw the stun grenade onto the ultras.

2.The fan brought the stun grenade in the playground himself.

3.The fan took the stun grenade away from the policeman in the mess,and activated it unintentionally.

Both sides accuse each other of the event,and the Ministry of Interior even published a video from the event to support the 3d theory (Komiti dismissed it as a hoax).
But we can only assume what really happened until the official investigation is over.
Until then,the good news is that doctors managed to save his arm (though he lost 3 fingers) and the oposing ultras (Pelister's "Chkembari")even visited him in the hospital expressing their support.
A nice gesture from them indeed.

[Bill77]

Originally Posted by Volokin

Football ultras are not meant to be civilized in the way you may expect. They are simply, the radical, hardcore element of supporters for the club, and there is nothing wrong with that. Oppression of football ultras worldwide, in Europe and especially now in Australia is a pressing issue, something which I have experienced first hand here.

Anyway, I think this photo here is evidence that the police were in possession of the grenade.



Now of course the Interior Ministry is not going to say it was the police's fault, but it is clear in this case, that is was. I know as well as anyone else knows, that the police forces of the Balkans are going to be riddled with brutal tactics and corruption.

I don't know Volokn.....

This image clearly shows the supporter had something in his hand, which highly likely is a detonator of some sort. I think it went horribly wrong on detonation and its self inflicted. By the way.....I'm last to defend police at Football games after supporters behind the goals at a Victory game, (where I was in the vicinity) we all got pepper sprayed for no reason. Actually.......a kid waved a flag close to a security guards face and he wouldn't hand it to the security guard. So let me rephrase that "for no good reason".

Anyway, back to the image....

[Momce Makedonce]

Originally Posted by Volokin

Football ultras are not meant to be civilized in the way you may expect. They are simply, the radical, hardcore element of supporters for the club, and there is nothing wrong with that. Oppression of football ultras worldwide, in Europe and especially now in Australia is a pressing issue, something which I have experienced first hand here.

Anyway, I think this photo here is evidence that the police were in possession of the grenade.



Now of course the Interior Ministry is not going to say it was the police's fault, but it is clear in this case, that is was. I know as well as anyone else knows, that the police forces of the Balkans are going to be riddled with brutal tactics and corruption.

Which club do you support here in Australia Volokin? I'm a West Sydney boy.

[EgejskaMakedonia]

Originally Posted by DraganOfStip

Not that I support the police or anything,but we're far from a civilized cheering for our clubs.The ultras are known here to be very hostille and agresive,and in most cases they are the ones that provoke a police intervention during matches.
Especially "Komiti" are known to have members with big criminal records and there is hardly a match that goes by without them being involved in some kind of an incident.
So before jumping into conclusions,here are 3 possible scenarios about what happened:

1.As you stated,a policeman threw the stun grenade onto the ultras.

2.The fan brought the stun grenade in the playground himself.

3.The fan took the stun grenade away from the policeman in the mess,and activated it unintentionally.

Both sides accuse each other of the event,and the Ministry of Interior even published a video from the event to support the 3d theory (Komiti dismissed it as a hoax).
But we can only assume what really happened until the official investigation is over.
Until then,the good news is that doctors managed to save his arm (though he lost 3 fingers) and the oposing ultras (Pelister's "Chkembari")even visited him in the hospital expressing their support.
A nice gesture from them indeed.

I understand that Dragan, but you need to remember that they are human too. The police should be reacting based on an incident that arises there and then, as opposed to treating these individuals likes animals based on previous encounters. In this particular match, the footage does not show any illegal acts being committed on behalf of the Vardar supporters. The police often treat sport fans (in particular football) as criminals. They are caged up, surrounded, and pushed into a corner. It's no wonder the environment is so hostile.

The images that I've seen show that the police were responsible for the stun grenade. Even so, the police handled the incident quite poorly. The bloke in question was walking around for a little while before any of the police decided to come to his aid. I find the 2nd scenario to be improbable. If the 3rd were true, I don't see why the police would have stun grenades and the like equipped on their belt at such a close proximity to the supporters. It really is quite careless if that's the case.

Even in the video I linked, the fans in most cases are defenseless and are beaten by the police. If they are going to show no tolerance for any misbehaviour, how come the Albanian riots and such are not met with the same kind of force. It's this inconsistent and selective behaviour that has me worried the most.

Here in Australia it is no where near as bad as Europe, but we still have security groups like ACG who are hungry with power and treat the fans like crap. Treating people like animals is only going to make them act like animals. The main problem here is the Football bodies that are completely incompetent and were responsible for the mistreatment of ethnic clubs around the country.

That said, I don't like all this A.C.A.B (All cops are bastards) that ultra groups promote. It's simply not true, and those who live by the book have their image tarnished by a few power-hungry thugs. I don't know how much corruption there is in the police force in Macedonia, but in Australia it is far more transparent than it used to be. At the end of the day, they're just trying to make a living, like the rest of us.

As for the gesture from the Bitola fans, that was nice to see. The various ultra groups in Macedonia are starting to band together to try and make a difference and I think that is a positive step given some of the ethnic tensions of late.

[Momce Makedonce]

Originally Posted by DraganOfStip

Not that I support the police or anything,but we're far from a civilized cheering for our clubs.The ultras are known here to be very hostille and agresive,and in most cases they are the ones that provoke a police intervention during matches.
Especially "Komiti" are known to have members with big criminal records and there is hardly a match that goes by without them being involved in some kind of an incident.
So before jumping into conclusions,here are 3 possible scenarios about what happened:

1.As you stated,a policeman threw the stun grenade onto the ultras.

2.The fan brought the stun grenade in the playground himself.

3.The fan took the stun grenade away from the policeman in the mess,and activated it unintentionally.

Both sides accuse each other of the event,and the Ministry of Interior even published a video from the event to support the 3d theory (Komiti dismissed it as a hoax)
But we can only assume what really happened until the official investigation is over.
Until then,the good news is that doctors managed to save his arm (though he lost 3 fingers) and the oposing ultras (Pelister's "Chkembari")even visited him in the hospital expressing their support.
A nice gesture from them indeed.

I can only comment from what I have seen through the internet, however it seems that Macedonian ultras are quite well behaved compared to other countries in Europe or even the Balkans.

You dont see them going around setting stadiums on fire or stabbing people for no reason which is the case in many other countries. I am not even sure if their are any firms in Macedonia.

I also agree with Egejska Makedonia about the whole ACAB thing. Very wrong to label all police officers into this one pile.