Macedonians and Cretans

[Pelister]

Originally Posted by Spartan

The Minoans, who were the original inhabitants of the Island were absorbed into the Myceanians, who were from the southern Pelloponese.We are talking in the 1000's(or perhaps before)B.C..
What relevance this has to the connection between Macedonians and Cretans, I dont know. If there is any connection between the 2, its from well after this period.

I don't know about that.

How do explain the fact that the native langauge of Crete, was not Greek, and still in use in the 3rd century BC, at least according to Homer?

[Pelister]

Originally Posted by osiris

boys its you wannabe greeks that made such an issue about ethnicity and connections with the ancient balkan peoples, and now that we can use a scientific test that clearly demonstrates who is what in the balkans, you poor losers cant take it, and keep refferring to the biased subjective opinion of historians and politicians, and only the ones who support your views.
its not good enough to go crawling behind the skirts of isocrates and however else you discovered last week, when the truth is in our dna our genetic makeup.
if dna testing supported your position thats all you boys would be talking about.
for your information spartan macedoniasn apprently share mcuh of our dna with cretans and basques, does that explain the picture a little clearer, we didnt come down with the so called slavic invasions we have been ther since neolithic times.

I wonder if there is a dominant stubborn gene in the Greeks ?

[osiris]

there is a greek gene.

the everything is greek and if its not claim it anyway, gene.

[Spartan]

Originally Posted by Pelister

I don't know about that.

How do explain the fact that the native langauge of Crete, was not Greek, and still in use in the 3rd century BC, at least according to Homer?

In the Illiad, Homer also makes many references to the Cretans and their King Idomeneus, who accompanied and joined the Greeks in their war against Troy. In the story, King Idomeneus is at all the councils of the Greek kings, and has dialogue with the other Greek kings.
The Illiad was written in 800 b.c I believe, and the events it tells us about took place 800 years before that.

I have never read that the Cretans spoke a different language and I have read many versions of the Illiad, as I find it to be a great story.
Where does Homer write about the Cretan language?
I am not asking this sarcastically, if it is true, I would like to read it as well.

The Minoans, however, are assumed to have spoken a language that was not Greek.Closer to a mix of Egyptian and Greek, as the island lies about halfway between Greece and Africa.

[Spartan]

Originally Posted by osiris

boys its you wannabe greeks that made such an issue about ethnicity and connections with the ancient balkan peoples, and now that we can use a scientific test that clearly demonstrates who is what in the balkans, you poor losers cant take it, and keep refferring to the biased subjective opinion of historians and politicians, and only the ones who support your views.
its not good enough to go crawling behind the skirts of isocrates and however else you discovered last week, when the truth is in our dna our genetic makeup.
if dna testing supported your position thats all you boys would be talking about.
for your information spartan macedoniasn apprently share mcuh of our dna with cretans and basques, does that explain the picture a little clearer, we didnt come down with the so called slavic invasions we have been ther since neolithic times.

Are your insults directed at me?
If so why?
Did I say something to offend you?
Is this how you respond to civilised dialogue?
I have not insulted you or Macedonians in general in any of my posts.
Just because Im Greek doesnt mean you have to attack me.
That would be considered racist, no?
Isnt that what you are against, and what you critisize Greece, EU and other organizations for?

[Spartan]

Minoan Chronology
One of the hot topics in Minoan archaeology is chronology. There are two sets of Minoan chronology, one which reflects stratigraphic levels in archaeological sites, and one which attempts to plot cultural changes, with an emphasis on the Minoan palaces, since that's the defining characteristic. Traditionally, Minoan culture is divided into events. The chronology starts about 3000 BC; Knossos was founded about 1900 BC, Santorini erupted ca 1500 BC; and Knossos fell in 1375 BC.

However, recent investigations indicate that Santorini may have erupted about 1600 BC, although there is still some question about that; clearly, these absolute dates will continue to be controversial for some time to come. The following chronology is from Yannis Hamilakis' 2002 book, Labyrinth Revisited: Rethinking 'Minoan' Archaeology.

Minoan Chronology
Early Minoan I 3300-2900 BC
Early Minoan IIA 2900-2550 BC
Early Minoan IIB 2550-2300 BC
Pre-Palatial (EM III/MM IA) 2300-1900 BC (Vasilike, Myrtos, Debla, Mochlos)
Proto-Palatial (MM IIA-MM IIIA) 1900-1700 BC (Knossos, Phaistos, Malia)
Neo-Palatial (MMIIIB) 1700-1600 BC (Ayia Triadha, Tylissos, Kommos, Akrotiri)
Neo-Palatial (LM IA-LM IB) 1600-1450 BC (Vathypetro, Kommos, Palaikastro)
Late Minoan II through Late Minoan IIIA/B 1450-1200 BC (Kydonia) (Kommos, Vathypetro)
Late Minoan IIIC 1200-1150 BC

The capital was Knossos, founded about 1900 BC.

Minoans and their Writing Systems
The main written language of the Minoans was Linear A, a language which has yet to be deciphered but may represent a form of early Greek. It was used for religious and accounting purposes from about 1800-1450 BC, when it abruptly disappeared to be replaced by Linear B, a tool of the Mycenaeans.

End of the Minoans
Between about 1600 and 1627 BC, the volcano on Santorini erupted, destroying the island and the Minoan occupation there. Giant tsunamis destroyed the coastal cities such as Palaikastro, which was completely inundated. Knossos itself was destroyed by another earthquake in 1375 BC. A clear cultural shift began on Crete, with architecture, writing styles and other cultic objects similar to the Mycenaean mainland replacing much of the Minoan styles. Because of this, it was believed that what ended the Minoan culture was a combination of earthquakes and conflict wars with the Mycenaeans from mainland Greece, and/or Egypt, over the extensive trade that had developed in the Mediterranean at the time.

However, more recently, archaeologists have come to believe that at least a substantial portion of the reason for the downfall of the Minoans was internal political conflict. Evidence for the takeover by Mycenaeans includes Mycenaean-type tombs called "tholos" or "warrior graves". Recent strontium analysis shows that the people buried in "warrior graves" are not from the mainland, but were born and lived their lives on Crete, suggesting that the shift to a Mycenaean-like society may have not included a Mycenaean invasion.

Source

http://archaeology.about.com/od/mterms/qt/minoan.htm

[Risto the Great]

Minoans and their Writing Systems
The main written language of the Minoans was Linear A, a language which has yet to be deciphered but may represent a form of early Greek. It was used for religious and accounting purposes from about 1800-1450 BC, when it abruptly disappeared to be replaced by Linear B, a tool of the Mycenaeans.

It might also be an early form of German.

[Spartan]

^^^
Maybe Australlian, they're an island too, arent they?

[Risto the Great]

Originally Posted by Spartan

^^^
Maybe Australlian, they're an island too, arent they?

Anything is possible mate!

[osiris]

not at you spartan, i dont see you denying my macedonia identity.

my refrence to you was strictly to infrom you what all dna testing has revealed, a link between modern macedonians and cretans.