Macedonian Truth Forum   

Go Back   Macedonian Truth Forum > Macedonian Truth Forum > Macedonian History

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-29-2012, 03:00 AM   #11
Daniel the Great
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,084
Daniel the Great is on a distinguished road
Default

Here is the mina article: http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/20667/2/



Quote:
Vatican had Scholarships for Macedonians since 1600's
Monday, 26 March 2012

Local Skopje daily "Nova Makedonija" published documents and letters from the Vatican archives dating back to the 17th century, or to be more precise to 1619.
In those documents, the Vatican had a special program in which they provided scholarships to Macedonian bishops for 400 years.

The most interesting are two original letters written by Macedonian bishop Mardarije, member of the Ohrid Patriarchy sent to Cardinal Beberini in which he speaks of the problems created by the Turks and in particularly the Albanians in his diocese. Both letters were received by the Pope. The Macedonian priest was presented to the Pope as "he hails from the land of the big king, Alexander."

Interestingly enough, Vatican made a distinction between Macedonians, Serbians (Servians) and Bulgarians 400 years ago. Even more interesting, Greeks or Greece are not mentioned in any of the documents! Though this is expected since Greece at the time was mainly populated by Macedonians, Albanians and Turks. The nationality "Greek" begun circulating much later, in the 19th century, introduced by Germany.

In 1619, Dalmatian bishops requested from Pope Paul V to make a decision and relocate the College back to Loreto, and allocate more spots for bishops from Servia (Vatican's name for Serbia), Bulgaria and Macedonia who in the future will no longer need to contact the Wholy See for scholarships.
According to Vatican archives, in 1620, there were three Macedonian bishops at the College.
There are additional communications between Macedonian bishops and the College of Cardinals and the Pope in 1625 and later on.
Daniel the Great is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2012, 04:32 AM   #12
George S.
Senior Member
 
George S.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 10,116
George S. is on a distinguished road
Default

yeah i wonder what other gems there are.Also the secret of st mathews church in vienna whether the body is of st mathews interned there or is it alexander the great.??
perhaps some of the material could be archived at mto as a reference source??
George S. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2020, 05:13 AM   #13
Chicho Makedonski
Junior Member
 
Chicho Makedonski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 39
Chicho Makedonski is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
Google translate:
Is there any reference for the Scholarships in 1619 part where the Macedonians are mentioned as a distinct ethnic group. Archive name, page number etc, as the Nova Makedonija link isnít available anymore.
Chicho Makedonski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2020, 05:54 AM   #14
Soldier of Macedon
Administrator
 
Soldier of Macedon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Macedonian Outpost
Posts: 13,288
Soldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicho Makedonski View Post
Is there any reference for the Scholarships in 1619 part where the Macedonians are mentioned as a distinct ethnic group. Archive name, page number etc, as the Nova Makedonija link isnít available anymore.
The link to the MINA article cited earlier is also unavailable, but I found the same summary on this link: https://documents-mk.blogspot.com/20...ships-for.html. Here it is again with photos. Unfortunately, there is no reference to archive, page, etc.
Quote:
Vatican had Scholarships for Macedonians since 1600's

Local Skopje daily "Nova Makedonija" published documents and letters from the Vatican archives dating back to the 17th century, or to be more precise to 1619. In those documents, the Vatican had a special program in which they provided scholarships to Macedonian bishops for 400 years.



The most interesting are two original letters written by Macedonian bishop Mardarije, member of the Ohrid Patriarchy sent to Cardinal Beberini in which he speaks of the problems created by the Turks and in particularly the Albanians in his diocese. Both letters were received by the Pope. The Macedonian priest was presented to the Pope as "he hails from the land of the big king, Alexander." Interestingly enough, Vatican made a distinction between Macedonians, Serbians (Servians) and Bulgarians 400 years ago. Even more interesting, Greeks or Greece are not mentioned in any of the documents! Though this is expected since Greece at the time was mainly populated by Macedonians, Albanians and Turks. The nationality "Greek" begun circulating much later, in the 19th century, introduced by Germany.



In 1619, Dalmatian bishops requested from Pope Paul V to make a decision and relocate the College back to Loreto, and allocate more spots for bishops from Servia (Vatican's name for Serbia), Bulgaria and Macedonia who in the future will no longer need to contact the Holy See for scholarships. According to Vatican archives, in 1620, there were three Macedonian bishops at the College. There are additional communications between Macedonian bishops and the College of Cardinals and the Pope in 1625 and later on.

Blaze Minevski
__________________
In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a full blooded Macedonian.
Soldier of Macedon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2020, 09:40 PM   #15
Chicho Makedonski
Junior Member
 
Chicho Makedonski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 39
Chicho Makedonski is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
The link to the MINA article cited earlier is also unavailable, but I found the same summary on this link: https://documents-mk.blogspot.com/20...ships-for.html. Here it is again with photos. Unfortunately, there is no reference to archive, page, etc.
Thanks for this information. Last year i found a Macedonian site that posted information about the Vatican archive but it had a slightly different summary than the one you shared.

It stated: In 1619, the Dalmatian bishops demanded that Pope Paul Pietti decide that the College should return to Loreto and at the same time allocate places to cadets "Bosnians, Serbians, Bulgarians and Macedonians who in the future will have no reason to address the Holy Capital for scholarships".

Unfortunately that link isn't available anymore.
Chicho Makedonski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2020, 06:30 AM   #16
Liberator of Makedonija
Senior Member
 
Liberator of Makedonija's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,379
Liberator of Makedonija is on a distinguished road
Default

A letter from June 1615 from Ohrid Archbishop Atanasius to what I am assuming to be Pope Paul Pietti:

"And so I proposed when five or six thousand infantry men would be given to me by his Highness of Spanish and Italian nationality, weapons and ammunition for the arming of 15,000 men, saddles and harness for 4,000 horses, in short time I would deliver Macedonia under his rule and power, promising to pay back the aforementioned weapons and ammunition and that food would be given to the soldiers, since those regions are rich and abundant in foods. Hence after this action succeeds, the whole of Bosnia and Dalmatia, Bulgaria and Greece will doubltless raise their weapons against the Turk...."
__________________
I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.
Liberator of Makedonija is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump