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Old 09-20-2010, 05:34 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by TrueMacedonian View Post
Risto I used to believe this myself. But I doubt very much that the Phanariots wanted to "Hellenize" Macedonia considering none (Hellenes: imposter or real) existed in 1776.

In 1776, i don't think thats possible. Phanariots in Istanbul always considered themselves as Romans and their language as Romaika `till about 1860s. When Greece has been founded in 1820s, Phanariots said that it was a revolt of stupid peasants, nothing else.

After 1860s, their beliefs radically changed tough and started to become coherent with modern Greeks.
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Old 09-20-2010, 05:45 PM   #42
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Risto I used to believe this myself. But I doubt very much that the Phanariots wanted to "Hellenize" Macedonia considering none (Hellenes: imposter or real) existed in 1776.
Given that many Phanariots ended up becoming Romanians, this was never about Hellenising anything. It was about securing markets. The church was the controlling institution and there was a need to gain control of it. The history books clearly show the Ottoman/Patriarchal collusion in this matter.
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Old 09-20-2010, 06:40 PM   #43
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Given that many Phanariots ended up becoming Romanians, this was never about Hellenising anything. It was about securing markets. The church was the controlling institution and there was a need to gain control of it. The history books clearly show the Ottoman/Patriarchal collusion in this matter.
Agreed. However I don't think it was an outright attack on the identity of the Macedonians who felt passionately Christian as there identity by majority.
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Old 09-21-2010, 12:19 AM   #44
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Agreed. However I don't think it was an outright attack on the identity of the Macedonians who felt passionately Christian as there identity by majority.
Yes, I don't think any Macedonian would have predicted what came next!
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Old 09-22-2010, 04:40 AM   #45
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More propaganda from the same set of media:

" Macedonia, Macedonians and Macedonian language exist and will not disappear because of a few words on a piece of paper with a possible contract in the name dispute, " said Daniel Server from the U.S. Institute of Peace in an interview with Voice of America in Macedonian language.

He makes the parallel with the United States to which many refer different, but it does not affect the identity of the country.
He says in the Constitution it is called the United States, but some call it America, some United States, others oppose to call it America - which doesn't mean much to him and recommends that the Macedonians should have more confidence.

"The question is which settings should be made to satisfy the Greeks, whether you think it is fair or not, they have a veto in the Macedonian entry into NATO. So it is a practical matter, and really it's not an ideological, it's about what should I do to get the club where I want to belong, " said Server.

http://a1.com.mk/vesti/default.aspx?VestID=127720

It's becoming more and more perfectly clear in these kind of assurance that all we need to do in order to satisfy the Greeks is to change our name, nationality and language.
It is also clear NATO stands on Greek side and they are using the Macedonian bid to enter this organisation for making their pressure.

Another reason why Macedonia should abid only to her interests that obviously can't be accomplished with her membership in NATO.

After all, Server believes that the option to cease the negotiations and even not to seek membership in the EU and NATO is something that nobody can take away from us.
It is the best option indeed!
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Old 09-22-2010, 04:52 AM   #46
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Never trust a man with the name Server
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Old 09-22-2010, 06:27 AM   #47
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He makes the parallel with the United States to which many refer different, but it does not affect the identity of the country.
He says in the Constitution it is called the United States, but some call it America, some United States, others oppose to call it America - which doesn't mean much to him and recommends that the Macedonians should have more confidence.
What are they anyway? USAans? The USA identity crisis should not sway any Macedonian issues whatsoever.
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Old 09-22-2010, 06:57 AM   #48
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Quote:
because of a few words on a piece of paper with a possible contract in the name dispute
If that is the case, than why is Greece insisting on that? Because it presupposes that the following will be the outcome:

Quote:
Macedonia, Macedonians and Macedonian language won't exist and will disappear
clear enough.
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Old 09-22-2010, 07:35 AM   #49
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What are they anyway? USAans? The USA identity crisis should not sway any Macedonian issues whatsoever.
Maybe he wanted to compare our case with how they renamed the indigenous Americans - in Indians?

The nationality called USA doesn't exist since the name doesn't reflect any ethnicity, but only as U.S. citizens who may be of a different ethnic background, and it means that if Macedonia changes its name, it will reflect the ethnic name of the Macedonians, because it will be a political-geographical form where the ethnonym "Macedonians" will need to be further explained with the geographycal adjective in order to be differentiated from the so-called local identities of Bulgarian and Greek Macedonians(of purely geographycal meaning).

This will cause that we lose the primary identity that is reflected in the name of the country, and will be defined only by the secondary identity (local-geographic) which will equate us with the "Greek Macedonians" in the significance, but with the difference that they, the "Greek Macedonians" still have their primary identity - Greeks derived from the name of the state - Greece.

The "Greek Macedonians" are NOT an ethnic group!

Therefore we should not accept any change!

Ex. if to be :

Vardar Macedonia - > Vardar Macedonians -> Vardar Macedonian language = changed identity.

Greece - > Greeks -> Greek language
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Last edited by Bratot; 09-22-2010 at 07:38 AM.
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Old 09-22-2010, 01:22 PM   #50
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Vardar Macedonia - > Vardar Macedonians -> Vardar Macedonian language = changed identity.

Greece - > Greeks -> Greek language
Bratot..what if it is officialy agreed the following:

Vardar Macedonia -> Macedonians ->Macedonian Language ???
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