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Old 02-21-2019, 04:02 PM   #11
Carlin
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Some writers (such as Gibbon himself!) believed that Slavs descended from the Sarmatians.

The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, 1
By Edward Gibbon - Page 224.


A Compendious View of the History of the Darker Ages By Esq. C. CHATFIELD - Page 7.
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Old 02-26-2019, 03:24 PM   #12
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The province of Scythia and the Avaro-Slavic invasions (576-626)

Alexandru Madgearu

The theory of the fall of the Danubian limes is now obsolete. The case of the province of Scythia shows that the downfall of the limes and of the townlife was a gradual processes. The chronology of the Avar and Slavic invasions in Scythia could be established by a comparison between literary, archaeological and numismatic sources. The evidence gathered from several towns and fortresses shows that the invasions that led to the downfall of the Scythic limes and of the whole province could be dated in three periods: 576-584, 593-595, 614-626. The attacks of the first period had no major consequences (except the destruction of Tropaeum). In the second period was ravaged especially the northern part of the province. (It seems that this region was no more defended later). The wave of invasions that began in 614 was the final stage of a long process. There was not a sudden end of the Byzantine civilisation in Scythia, but a transition period.

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Old 03-02-2019, 11:02 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Carlin15 View Post
As far as I know it is pretty much an accepted fact that the Slavic migrations to the Balkans took place in the 6th-7th c. AD. I am proposing and believe (I could be totally wrong) that some Slavic settlements in the Balkans occurred even prior to 6th century, and have used a few releveant quotes, although strong evidence is almost non-existing. Epicenter of the second Slavic Palatalization likely happened from the 5th century, and it is very possible that this was taking place among the Slavs in the Balkans at this time.
Historian J. B. Bury argued for an earlier migration/presence of Slavs in the Balkans. He thought that Slavs were present in the Balkans as early as the 4th century AD!










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Old 05-17-2021, 03:51 AM   #14
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Are you a trained historian, linguist, or archaeologist (or all of the above)? Do you feel competent enough to actually validate historical or linguistic theories? If so, I assume you have published some articles or books, and have the academic background behind you.
Carlin, this is another response from myself that is about two years in the making. To start with, there’s no need for either of us to disclose the extent of our education in one or more of the above sciences. In the present setting, you and I are merely two strangers debating an issue in which we both share an interest and I don’t intend to underrate your contribution if it is well researched and sensible. As much of the subject matter and associated literature is riddled with politically-motivated conjecture, I seldom take the word of somebody for granted just because they're published. I would also encourage you to be more critical and explore how scholars in the relevant fields have reached their conclusions.
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THE HOMELAND OF SLAVS IN THE LIGHT OF NAMES OF SOME TREES AND FISH: https://www.academia.edu/7074358/THE...TREES_AND_FISH
Further on the homeland of slavs in the light of names of some trees (elms, poplars and the aspen, and maples): https://www.academia.edu/7074384/Fur...en_and_maples_
The author asserts that details about certain plants can be used to determine where the early Slavic language was first spoken. Basically, loanwords delineate a western limit and native words zero in on a particular area further east, situating early Slavic in the Pripet marshes. Some of his reasoning is arbitrary and if he’s relying on the current location of those plants, his approach may be reminiscent of the old “beech argument” with regard to the supposed homeland of the Proto-Indo-European language. He also uses the first reference to (the word) carp in Latin by Cassiodorus in the 6th century and the presence of the “Slavs” (i.e., Sclavenes) in the Lower Danube during that same period to opine that the Romans borrowed the early Slavic name for this fish shortly before it was introduced to other parts of Europe beyond the Danube. However, the Romans were already familiar with carp, long before ca. 500. If the name of this fish is a loanword in Latin, it just as likely came from the Thracians, irrespective of its late attestation. To be clear, I’m not doubting the author’s ability as a linguist, although his inferred dating is very speculative. The cardinal error, in my view, is the premise which informed his endeavour. He doesn’t seem to have researched the terms of these species to determine where they came from, but instead to affirm a predetermined position.
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Your stance that "I agree, except at this stage I am reluctant to refer to a 'homeland of the Slavs' as it suggests a large group of people that were hitherto unheard of yet suddenly exploded onto the scene to occupy much of Europe. I don't agree with that." is very interesting. Would you be able to elaborate why?
The evidence doesn’t support a mass migration. Inferences drawn from ambiguous statements in historical sources are not conclusive, there is no archaeological evidence of a uniform culture that stretched from the Pripet marshes to Croatia and Macedonia, and the populations within this vast area are genetically diverse. That some migrations (in various directions) occurred during the medieval period is beyond doubt, but the primary reason for the wide distribution of early Slavic can only be explained by language shift. That is why reference to the “homeland of the Slavs” is misleading, as it suggests that all of the people who came to speak that language or were referred to as Sclavenes descended from the Pripet marshes or another specific location.
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