In Antiquity Neither Macedonians and Greeks Considered Macedonians to be Greek!

[Liberator of Makedonija]

Originally Posted by DaS

Hello and good day to you all.
I devote as much of my time as I can on arguing with Yunnis, Bulgarians and the like. Or better said I try to counter their propaganda and to make the world see that we Macedonians have something to say. Not just those that deny us.
The problem is that I am not a Historian, and do not have the knowledge some of those that I try to argue with do. And also many of them have no knowledge, they just have easy access to propaganda. What I need is help in countering some of the facts that they bring forth. Is this a good thread for that or is there a better one ?

Really depends on the subject.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Originally Posted by DaS

What I need is help in countering some of the facts that they bring forth. Is this a good thread for that or is there a better one ?

Welcome. A few things. First, I deleted your previous post. We don't need more random anti-Macedonian idiots being cited here, there are plenty of other examples already on this forum and our responses to them. Second, if you're interested in learning about Macedonian history, spend more time going through the history and exposing propaganda sections. This forum has been active for over a decade and there is a plethora of sources and arguments that refute the idiocy of our enemies. Third, if you have a question about a specific topic, do some research on it first then ask for opinions, but be specific, there are plenty of forum members (myself included) that can provide information or point you in the right direction.

Excuse the bluntness and don't take it as an attack against you, but the moronic and opinionated quote you referenced from that idiot isn't worth dignifying with an answer and there is no place for that rubbish here anymore. We passed that stage years ago. Macedonians who are interested in their own history should transcend the mere mention of an opposing argument and at least take some time to develop a counter-argument before haphazardly posting the former here, especially when it lacks any substance or specificity.

[Bill77]

Originally Posted by DaS

Hello and good day to you all.
I devote as much of my time as I can on arguing with Yunnis, Bulgarians and the like. Or better said I try to counter their propaganda and to make the world see that we Macedonians have something to say. Not just those that deny us.
The problem is that I am not a Historian, and do not have the knowledge some of those that I try to argue with do. And also many of them have no knowledge, they just have easy access to propaganda. What I need is help in countering some of the facts that they bring forth. Is this a good thread for that or is there a better one ?

Use the "Search" feature on top of the page. Type in a particular subject ie: "Delcev" and below that you have 2 options "Show threads" or "show posts" i usually click "Show posts" as it gives you all the specific posts Delcev is mentioned and which thread it was mentioned in. Good luck DaS and welcome.

[DaS]

Thank both of you on your reply's.

Soldier of Macedon - No offence could possibly be taken. I thank you on your bluntness and appreciate your candor. It is not that I care what people that have been taught or truly believe propaganda think. I do not care about them at all, to be honest. What I care about is that the world at large is not hearing of our story enough. They only hear their propaganda and they do not know the truth. So they believe them, that will change soon I'm sure, but till then i try to get our voice to as many people as I can. Truly i am not a historian, except as a pastime and a hobby. My interest lie in the fields of Anthropology and Ethnology, but I will try the best I can to further my knowledge on the topic of Macedonian history. So i can better serve my people.

Bill77 - Thank you on your advice. I will put it to good use. And: Добро ве најдов.

[Karposh]

A common argument used by Greeks today when defending the indisputable fact that Greeks and Macedonians were often in conflict with each other in ancient times is that it wasn't unusual for Greeks to be in conflict with each other at that time. In fact, it was quite a common thing for one city state to wage war against another or, at times, a coalition of city states to wage war on another coalition of city states. The argument being that, despite their animosity, Greeks and Macedonians were still the same people.

The trouble with that argument is that it assumes that ancient Greeks were as willfully ignorant and clueless as today's Greeks with regard to the ethnicity of the ancient Macedonians. If the ancient Macedonians were indeed, even remotely, related to the Greeks then Demosthenes' legendary rant against Philip (known to history as the 3rd Philippic) would have fallen flat since the ancient Greeks were best placed to know who was a Greek and who wasn't. After all, it should never be overlooked that only true blue Greeks were allowed to compete in the Olympic Games, which were open to all Greeks from across the Mediterranean and Black Sea coasts while everyone else was denied this honour. It was only after Alexander the Great's paternal ancestor, Alexander I - The Philhellene (i.e. the "Friend of the Greeks"), faked his Greek credentials that the Olympic judges allowed him to compete, to the utter disgust and protestations of the rest of the Greek competitors. They knew the judges' decision was bullshit and, history tells us, they let them know it. As far as they were concerned, this King of Macedonia was no Greek! So, only a king, it would seem, had the means to bribe the Olympic judges and be allowed to compete. The everyday Macedonian, of course, stood a snow ball's chance in hell.

But, back to Demosthenes' rant. To modern Greeks today, which I have labelled willfully ignorant, and many modern historians, which are also deserving of this title, it's no big deal. Greeks fighting among themselves was a common occurrence. If only it wasn't for one small detail. Here are Demosthenes' thoughts regarding Greeks fighting Greeks in ancient times:

"Ay, and you know this also, that the wrongs which the Greeks suffered from the Lacedaemonians (i.e. the Spartans) or from us (i.e. the Athenians), they suffered at all events at the hands of true-born sons of Greece, and they might have been regarded as the acts of a legitimate son, born to great possessions...(Diod.17.62.1)

So, in other words, even the sufferings inflicted on Greeks by other Greeks carry a different weight and are easier to endure than those inflicted on Greeks by non-Greeks. Thus, the suffering inflicted by Philip, the "wretched Macedonian", is not only not acceptable but degrading and humiliating.