Makedonski Narodni i Patriotski Pesni - Macedonian Folk & Patriotic Songs

[Karposh]

Originally Posted by vicsinad

Yup, exactly. I think what happened was that she was trying to show off, suck up to, or impress a Bulgarian audience to get some fans, followers, i.e. to sell some music. When asked the question, she a) couldn't think of Bulgarian songs she sings to Macedonians right away and just threw out some songs; or b) knew that Bulgarians consider those songs Bulgarian and threw them a bone.

I don't need or care for an apology from her. Just not to make detrimental remarks to cause.

Eftina i prosta kurva...Just like the rest of the cheap and simple-minded (i.e. brain-dead) whores of North Macedonia.

[Liberator of Makedonija]

Noticed this folktale/poem (unsure how to calssify) whilst reading 'Bulgarian Folk Songs' by the Miladinov Brothers. It was under the Kostursko section in this part of the book but notice its references to other regions in Macedonia at a time when there was little connection between these areas (the material was gathered in the 1850s and this example is likely much older):


331. (Петрице, моме Петрице!)


„Петрице, моме Петрице!

Дейгиди риба летнице,

Цѫрвено отъ Охритъ яболко,

Преспанска тѫнка ѭгуля,

Елибасанско-но ноже,

Юручка топла погача,

Битолско поле широко,

Тиквешка бѣла пченица,

Солунско суво грозѥнце,

Воденска ширка цѫрвена,

Негошко вино ’убаво!“

[Soldier of Macedon]

Originally Posted by Liberator of Makedonija

It was under the Kostursko section in this part of the book but notice its references to other regions in Macedonia at a time when there was little connection between these areas....

Why was there little connection between these areas?

[Liberator of Makedonija]

Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon

Why was there little connection between these areas?

No railwaylines, no roads, no forms of modern communication - all to be expected from the "sick man of Europe"

[Soldier of Macedon]

Originally Posted by Liberator of Makedonija

No railwaylines, no roads, no forms of modern communication - all to be expected from the "sick man of Europe"

And because there was a lack of infrastructure to facilitate a more efficient method of travel and communication, you find it revealing that a poem from Kostur would mention other Macedonian towns?

[Liberator of Makedonija]

Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon

And because there was a lack of infrastructure to facilitate a more efficient method of travel and communication, you find it revealing that a poem from Kostur would mention other Macedonian towns?

As far as some are, yes. I have family from the villages in Kostur and they have barely heard of anywhere north of Bitola and east of Solun because there was no reason to know them and no connection to them.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Originally Posted by Liberator of Makedonija

As far as some are, yes. I have family from the villages in Kostur and they have barely heard of anywhere north of Bitola and east of Solun because there was no reason to know them and no connection to them.

Just because many of them didn't have the opportunity to travel to other towns in the 19th century doesn't mean they were ignorant of their existence or hadn't heard stories about them. As for your family members, they either know that places like Ohrid, Skopje and Strumica exist or they don't. If they don't, then they have either been brainwashed by the education system in Greece or have a limited interest in their ancestral culture, history and kinsmen from other parts of Macedonia.

[Liberator of Makedonija]

Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon

Just because many of them didn't have the opportunity to travel to other towns in the 19th century doesn't mean they were ignorant of their existence or hadn't heard stories about them. As for your family members, they either know that places like Ohrid, Skopje and Strumica exist or they don't. If they don't, then they have either been brainwashed by the education system in Greece or have a limited interest in their ancestral culture, history and kinsmen from other parts of Macedonia.

Bit rich to just assume people in my region were brainwashed or have limited interest in their culture I feel you believe 19th century Macedonian peasants knew a lot more than they were realistically capable of knowing. Kostursko has been a hotbed for Macedonian revolutionary activity for over a century, so you cannot claim people aren't interested in their culture because they died for it. No one was brainwashed by the Greek education system either because if that were the case, they would not call themselves Macedonians. A spade is a spade and a shovel a shovel; not every Macedonian peasant in the 1850s knew the exact geographic definition of Macedonia and all the towns it encompasses (especially seeing how Macedonia was not strictly defined until a few decades later).

[Karposh]

Originally Posted by Liberator of Makedonija

Bit rich to just assume people in my region were brainwashed or have limited interest in their culture I feel you believe 19th century Macedonian peasants knew a lot more than they were realistically capable of knowing. Kostursko has been a hotbed for Macedonian revolutionary activity for over a century, so you cannot claim people aren't interested in their culture because they died for it. No one was brainwashed by the Greek education system either because if that were the case, they would not call themselves Macedonians. A spade is a spade and a shovel a shovel; not every Macedonian peasant in the 1850s knew the exact geographic definition of Macedonia and all the towns it encompasses (especially seeing how Macedonia was not strictly defined until a few decades later).

LoM, I really didn't want to weigh in but, seriously mate, what you're saying is silly...no offence. Putting aside your counter arguments to SoM, which I find a bit hard to follow tbh, looking at the poem you quoted, the well known towns of Solun, Bitola, Ohrid, Negush, and the Tikvesh region are mentioned which is hardly a point worthy of singling out for surprise. Do you really think people lived in bubbles during the 19th century and remained put within each of their respective towns and villages because of a lack of infrastructure and means of communication? There is no doubt they knew of Solun, the most significant commercial hub of Ottoman Macedonia or, Bitola, the second most significant town in Ottoman Macedonia or, Ohrid, the cradle of Christian Orthodoxy in Macedonia with over a thousand years of existence or, Negush, which is not that far off from Kostur or the Tikvesh region?

[Liberator of Makedonija]

Originally Posted by Karposh

LoM, I really didn't want to weigh in but, seriously mate, what you're saying is silly...no offence. Putting aside your counter arguments to SoM, which I find a bit hard to follow tbh, looking at the poem you quoted, the well known towns of Solun, Bitola, Ohrid, Negush, and the Tikvesh region are mentioned which is hardly a point worthy of singling out for surprise. Do you really think people lived in bubbles during the 19th century and remained put within each of their respective towns and villages because of a lack of infrastructure and means of communication? There is no doubt they knew of Solun, the most significant commercial hub of Ottoman Macedonia or, Bitola, the second most significant town in Ottoman Macedonia or, Ohrid, the cradle of Christian Orthodoxy in Macedonia with over a thousand years of existence or, Negush, which is not that far off from Kostur or the Tikvesh region?

It is not that I believe they lived in a bubble, it is based on research of that time that highlights the complete of lack of communication across large scales. Your average peasant, in all of Europe, would possess little knowledge of the places beyond their immediate dwelling. The significance of the cities is also somewhat irrelevant as to know why they are famous would mean there would need to be an education, of which the Ottoman Empire severly lacked. Of course I am not silly enough to believe peasants were not educated by elders or by religious figures so of course many would know of these towns and why they are significant but we cannot assume all did. I did mention before how most locales east of Solun and north of Bitola were not widely known in Kostursko so I did not actually suggest these significant towns were unknown, even if the people in question never visited them.