Dura Europos

[Risto the Great]

Originally Posted by Slovak/Anomaly/Tomas

While I can make parallels for words in my own native language, or combine them with forms from other Slavic languages, the inscription makes sense. But why do older forms like Old Church Slavonic be less similar?

Slovak, I will take off my nationalist hat after this following paragraph.
Do you think there is any chance that Old Church Slavonic was not written in the local vernacular.? Rather, it may have been written for broader comprehension throughout Europe.

[Delodephius]

I doubt it. The Old Church Slavonic language was aimed specifically for the inhabitants of Great Moravia, ancestors of Slovaks, Slovenes and Czechs. Although majority of the oldest OCS texts have Southern Slavic features, it is theorized that when Constantine and Methodius got to Great Moravia they tried to accommodate the language to the locals' speech as much as possible, and in a way this gave birth to OCS as we know it. Because it was based on a different dialect and then was mixed with another, OCS is an artificial language to an extent, but its purpose was not to achieve such a great goal as you propose, something that at that time I would say was unimaginable, but not because it couldn't be done, but because there was no need, nor a requirement, nor some political goal or some ruler's wish. In 862 the only Slavic speakers who were at least partially Christian were the Balkan ones and the West Slavs minus the ones living outside Great Moravia which was restricted to the modern territory of Slavic states of Slovakia and Moravia (eastern Czech Republic). Poles, Wends, and all of the East Slavs were deeply Pagan until the beginning of the 2nd millennium AD.

[Struja]

Originally Posted by Risto the Great

Do you think there is any chance that Old Church Slavonic was not written in the local vernacular.? Rather, it may have been written for broader comprehension throughout Europe.

What you said has merit.

The Roman byzantine emperor wanted to spread Christianity by using the local dialects in Macedonia (they were already Christian but didn’t understand Koine) so OCS or Old Macedonian was proven to be more adaptable within the regions of the Byzantine Empire.

This adaptability was successfully completed when used for the 1st time in Great Moravia and then in Bulgaria.

I love these guys

[Struja]

Originally Posted by Slovak/Anomaly/Tomas

The Old Church Slavonic language was aimed specifically for the inhabitants of Great Moravia, ancestors of Slovaks, Slovenes and Czechs. .

are you sure about this?

[Pelister]

Just looking over both interpretations of the same inscription, I think both could be equally valid.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Originally Posted by Slovak

Although majority of the oldest OCS texts have Southern Slavic features, it is theorized that when Constantine and Methodius got to Great Moravia they tried to accommodate the language to the locals' speech as much as possible, and in a way this gave birth to OCS as we know it.

Slovak, can you give us some examples of the two and how they differ, I am keen to see them. Most of the older texts are written in Glagolica, is this correct?

In accordance with the research you have done into this subject, what is your opinion with regard to where the first Church Slavonic texts were written, and where the Glagolica and latter Kirilica letters were composed?

Originally Posted by Risto the Great

Do you think there is any chance that Old Church Slavonic was not written in the local vernacular.? Rather, it may have been written for broader comprehension throughout Europe.

I will have to agree with Struja, I think the idea has merit, but I would suggest that OCS was based on (a dialect of) Macedonian which featured added characteristics to suit the broader Slavic group.

The aim of enlightening just the Moravians via OCS seems to be narrow in the greater scheme of things, I don't believe that Constantine and Methodius went to all that trouble just to stop at Moravia, nor were they ignorant of the fact that Slavic-speaking people lived from Macedonia to Moravia to Russia, so the likelihood of OCS becoming attractive to the other (and greater) parts of the Slavic (linguistic) sea in Europe would have been a reality at the time. My opinion anyway.

[makedonin]

OSC was created to preserve Christianity which was of East Roman interest. The East Roman empire fundamentals were in the Christianity. The hard part for the Christianity to spread or maintain was the language i.e.Byzantine Koine.

The Moravian mission had a goal to stop the spreading of the Germanic i.e. Katolic down to East Roman borders.

Since the Bulgarians were allies with the Bavarians of the time, the natural thing to do was to somehow stop the progress of the Germanic influence through the Katolik church among the Slavs of Moravia and the region and create a gap between Bulgarian influenced lands and Germanic ruled lands.

The fact that Byzantines were able to look in such global perspective, could support Struja's hypothesis that the OSC was created with more general purpose.

[Delodephius]

The humble mission of Constantine and Methodius that was later turned as the greatest mission of all times by later Slavonic priests. If their goal was to create a common language for communication throughout Eastern Europe, then they sure fooled most people. They spent their whole time in Great Moravia. The later spread of OCS into Bulgaria and Russia was after the death of Methodius and when most of their students were killed, tortured or exiled out of Moravia by the German clergy. Their whole mission in the first place was not to convert Slavs to Christianity, but to bring them under the wing of the Eastern Church. Until the end of the 8th century what is not Serbia and Macedonia was under the Western Church and if the Byzantines didn't take over y'all would be Catholics now. The aim of the mission into Moravia was political in nature and that was its main purpose. The rest of the Slavic world as I mentioned was Pagan and the chance of it becoming Christian at that time was thin. It took two hundred more years to convert the Poles and the Russians.

[El Bre]

Until the end of the 8th century what is not Serbia and Macedonia was under the Western Church and if the Byzantines didn't take over y'all would be Catholics now.

In retrospect, this probably would have been a good thing.

[Delodephius]

Slovak, can you give us some examples of the two and how they differ, I am keen to see them. Most of the older texts are written in Glagolitic, is this correct?

In accordance with the research you have done into this subject, what is your opinion with regard to where the first Old Church Slavonic texts were written, and where the Glagolitic and latter Cyrillic letters were composed?

OCS / Great Moravian / English
cirǔky / cǐrky / church
kružǐ, križǐ / krǐstǔ / cross
rasponǔ, raspętie / propętie / crucifix
raspęti / propęti / to crucify
wǐšǐ / wǐsǐ / all
otǔpustiti / ostaviti / to forgive, to let go
raditi, roditi / bræšti, pešti sę / to take care of
rozumǔ / razumǔ / mind
nocǐ / noštǐ / night
pica / pišta / food
pomocǐ / pomoštǐ / help
rozǐstwo / roždǐstwo / birth
widæti / widæti / to see
očiščenie / očištenije / cleaning
zaščititi / zaštititi / to protect
sǫdišče / sǫdište / court
mydło / myło / soap
modliti sę / moliti sę / to pray
wǔsedĺena / wǔseĺenaæ / universe

Great Moravian also used words and expressions of the Western Rite that were present in the language before the arrival of the brothers. The two then had to accommodate their language to that of Great Moravia, because they used words of the Eastern Rite or their translations.
Such words used in Great Moravia were: mǐšæ, opłatǔ, wǔsǫdǔ, papežǔ, poganǐskǔ, præfaciæ.

There are only three copies of the Glagolitic manuscripts that contain the Four Gospels. The Glagolitic texts are older than the Cyrillic ones. The Glagolitic script was most likely composed by the two brothers or their students while they resided at the Olympian monastery in Bithynia (in Asia Minor). The Cyrillic alphabet was not used in Great Moravia and the manuscripts that originate from there are all either in Glagolitic, while a small number are in Latin, like the Freising manuscripts which show Slovenian features (northen parts of Slovenia and parts of Austria were under Great Moravian rule at that time; the original Freising manuscripts are actually older than the mission of Constantine and Methodius). The Cyrillic script originated in Bulgaria and Macedonia after the exile of Slavonic clergy from Great Moravia.