"Prior to 1865, Vlachs everywhere in the Peloponnese"

[George S.]

precisely momce we've had nothing but peacefull relations.Some of the vlachs have assimilated into macedonia.Some have become exeplary citizens.As a matter of fact you could say they have become more macedonian & have accepted their status.How is that if the albanians do that as we macedonians do not wish to harm settlers to their culture,language.We are a peacefull people who live in harmony with all races.

[momce]

well i consider vlachs to be a balkan people perhaps related to the old balkan tribes so theres no problem with considering them Macedonians..there is a vlach-Macedonian dialect if I am not mistaken

[George S.]

definitely right there momce.They blend in with the macedonians no doubt about that.They are an fine example for other races to follow.

[Nexus]

Vlachs are one of the Balkans peoples that I know the less the history. Here's what i find on an another forum :

We suppressed nothing, everyone is free to identify as Vlach or Serb anytime. What's Vlach anyway? In different times and at different places it had various connotations. Sometimes it meant a Romance language speaker, sometimes it meant a social class of shepherds (like in medieval Serbia) and sometimes it was a derogatory term for Orthodox Christians (as much as term "Latins" was for Roman Catholics and "Turks" for the Muslims).

Perhaps the very term "Vlach" has something to do with the Slavic word Vlas meaning hair, connected with the Slavic pagan god of wild nature, animals, cattle, known as Veles, Volos, Vles, who was worshiped especially by shepherds. There is also an old Slavic word V'lhv, Vlahov, Volhov, meaning sorcerer, enchanter.

Or perhaps we're here on a different trail, not ethnic but social. Serb and Vlach meaning 2 social classes of one ethnicity, Balkano-Slavic as I already explained in the thread about Russians looking exotic or something. Perhaps Serb is a designation for warrior and agricultural caste, while Vlach is a designation for (pagan) priests/shamans and shepherds.

I think also that Romanians and Albanians are connected, Albanians are a mix of vlachs/slavic speaking peoples with orientals and others influences [See the Kaplan Resuli-Burovic interview]. And :

The "Byzantines" were Latin-speakers as late as the 7th century (..and most likely for the next few centuries). "Mysteriously", some Vlachs appear out of nowhere in 976 AD, for the very first time.

Mysteriously at the same time (X century), some Albanians appear too ...

What's your thoughts?

[momce]

Not sure but these "bridges" are critical for understanding the ethnography of the entire region. Curiously there dont seem to be any greek idioms in Macedonia only standard greek(political construct).

[momce]

My view of the vlachs is they are not related to the Romans at all but are probably a residue of the proto-Balkan world.

[George S.]

Why do you think like that momce??

[momce]

they might be part of a pre-Latin substrate that was in the area like the Italo-Illyrian bridge or something but not sure..the Albanians may be a similar output of the Illyro-Thracian bridge both seem to be somwhat related to Romanians which are part of the same phenomenon..vlachs are an odd phenomenon my view is mayb they are the result of a scattered tribe that took on various forms depending on the territories they migrated towards. There are some interesting views of Barabas Latinist school. What I conclude is that the "greek" or whatever element is really superficial and mostly a political-church term in these regions has nothing to do with the peoples natural cultures, once you do the appropriate dialectical reductions and historical-phenomenol reductions.. So I consider the terms "greek", "bulgarian" etc to be ideological labels and power constructs.

[Carlin]

Originally Posted by Nexus

Vlachs are one of the Balkans peoples that I know the less the history. Here's what i find on an another forum :



I think also that Romanians and Albanians are connected, Albanians are a mix of vlachs/slavic speaking peoples with orientals and others influences [See the Kaplan Resuli-Burovic interview]. And :



Mysteriously at the same time (X century), some Albanians appear too ...

What's your thoughts?

I'm not sure I understand your question? Can you please clarify. Are you asking me about Albanians only, or the connection between Albanians and Vlachs?

The first undisputed reference to Albanians is in the XI century (although this specific term actually refers to Normans in a couple of cases, while the Albanians are called Arbanitai). Maybe a minor point, but I just wanted to clarify it. As already stated - "Vlachs" appear, for the first time, in 976 AD!

What I think is - these population groups already existed in the Balkans, prior to X/XI c., whatever their origins. Nevertheless, whatever their origins and 'date of appearance', I also think that Vlachs and Albanians intermingled over the course of centuries. Some Vlach groups were likely Albanized, while some Albanians may have been incorporated into the Vlach fold. There was also linguistic and cultural contact & mixing.

I have already explained, in another thread, my 'belief/theory' that Albanians are actually Mardaites - who were settled in the Balkans by Byzantine-Roman authorities starting no earlier than the 700's AD.

The Vlachs, whatever their "racial" and "ethnic" origins, are a mixed people indeed but they are direct descendants of the Roman empire and civilization.

[momce]

interesting the vlachs appear about the same time as the slavs. I believe at one time the vlachs were also called slavs or "bulgars" by the Byzantines...could these just be names the Byzatines are using for Balkan tribes who were not yet Christianised, still pagan? you say the vlachs "appear" first in 900's but could be they are just appearing to the Byzantines or the Byzantines are labelling them in that period, so they could be alot older.