Origins of IMRO ?

[Daskalot]

Here is something of interest to the above topic:

Taken from this book:


Page 26.

Page 27.

[Pelister]

Very interesting.

So the (B?)MORK was set up by Bulgarians looking to infiltrate the IMRO organization, if I understand this correctly?

[indigen]

Originally Posted by Pelister

Very interesting.

So the (B?)MORK was set up by Bulgarians looking to infiltrate the IMRO organization, if I understand this correctly?

No.

According to the Bulgar forgery (for propaganda purposes and territorial claims) and those that bought into it, for whatever reasons, e.g. Ivan Katardzhiev, that was the name of the original organisation formed 1893/1894. At the 1896 congress, at which Goce Delchev participated, it was renamed to T.M.O.R.O. and the constitution amended. What you posted above talks of 1896 and thus is even more dubious.

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The following is a Google translation (plus my promised edits, see page 1 of this topic):

Reply: the article by Antonio Miloshoski on Hristo Tatarchev published in Utrinski Vesnik on 18.12.2004)

IMRO never named BMORK
Alexander Donski

Antonio Milososki (otherwise a senior member of VMRO-DPMNE) continues to spread lies about Macedonian history in his articles. Thus at first in his article “The continuity of the name Macedonia (Utrinski newspaper, 16 and 17.10.2004), he claimed that the name Macedonia in the past in these areas was “lost” but at the beginning of the 19th century was “revived” by European cartographers. So, according to him, our nation until the 19th century did not know in which country it lives (even what ethnicity it is), but then after they “saw” maps drawn by Europeans realized that they are living in Macedonia. Of course this statement is meaningless, given the knowledge level of foreign cartography by (mostly uneducated/illiterate) Macedonians from the early 19th century and even later. Milososki claims that VMRO was initially named BMORK (Bulgarian Macedonian Adrianople [Odrinski] Revolutionary Committee [Komitet]). But this is also not true and this statement constitutes a clear articulation of Greater-Bulgarian anti-Macedonian propaganda. That VMRO previously, allegedly, was named BMORK is an invention of recent times (concretely by the propaganda machine of the Todor Zhivkov regime). But how do we know that the IMRO was never named BMORK? The answer to this question is very simple. Today we have preserved memoirs of the founders of this organization, so if VMRO was initially named BMORK, why is it not mentioned by them? How is it possible for someone to write memoirs of the organization that they created without mentioning the name under which it was founded? Therefore, with Milososki it is either a question of ignorance of what he writes about or a conscious attempt at an underhand Greater-Bulgarian provocation.

http://star.utrinski.com.mk/?pBroj=1659&stID=27508&pR=9

[indigen]

Originally Posted by Daskalot

Is this the book you are referring to Indigen?
I certainly am not in the dark.....



I have it in my library, just tell me what pages you would like to have scanned if you need them.

That is it. Also, I prefer text (OCR scanning) rather than this new fad on MTO and Maknews with image scans, which waste bandwidth and don't get picked up by search engines.

As for the book, I own it but don't like using it or promoting in any way as it is of limited use to Macedonians and it is presented from a "socialist" and Yugoslav ("Slav") ideological perspective and more than often undermines Macedonian national interests. I have it as a reference in order to understand what kind of ideological brainwashing Macedonians underwent during Yugoslav era and which is pretty much the same ideological history taught today. As Todor Petrov once put it, it is an education system that produces spineless individuals instead of Macedonian patriots.

Daskale, if you want to have a read for yourself, the section to read is found on pages 145 -160. Page 148 mentions the "B" label.

Cheers

[Liberator of Makedonija]

According to Macedonian wikipedia, Hristo Tatarčev stated the reason for deciding on autonomy was because the Great Powers and neighbouring states would never allow for a San Stefano Bulgaria and therefore, autonomy or membership in a Balkan federation was the best alternative.


Would appreciate if someone knowledgeable about Tatarčev could clarify this and provide their own thoughts.

[Chicho Makedonski]

The confusing thing is the Macedonians wanted no Bulgarian influence and wanted to get rid off the Bulgarian churches and replace them with Macedonian ones, also to make Macedonian an officially recognised language and offical language of the country once freed, not Bulgarian which is what the Bulgarians aimed for. So why would the Macedonians support such San Stefano Bulgaria when they clearly opposed it and any Bulgarian influence in Macedonia (atleast most of them).

I do not know much about him, so i am only speculating.

I think he was either an ethnic Bulgarian that wanted a free self governing Macedonia but with a main Bulgarian component to keep all (Bulgarian churches and schools) or he was an ethnic Macedonian that was confused and fell for the Bulgarian propaganda that the Macedonians and Bulgarians were the same people, explaining why he first supposedly wanted a San Stefano Bulgaria and basically had pro Bulgarian thoughts.

Either way we know that the Macedonians wanted a free self governing Macedonia for the Macedonians (both ethnic and regional Macedonians) where they would be the leaders of the country, Macedonian language to be the offical language of the country, to be free of foreign Greek, Bulgarian or Serbian influence and main components, whereby the growth of Macedonian churches and later on schools would take place. Ultimately to drive out the mainly forced Bulgarian ones that spreaded their propaganda to suite the needs of their peoples and interests regarding making Macedonia and its population pro Bulgarians so a greater Bulgaria would be more easily achieved even though San Stefano Bulgaria didn’t happen, Macedonia with a main Bulgarian component would’ve acted like a puppet state to Bulgaria and such borders would not of needed to happen instantly but future annexation would’ve been inevitable.

Luckily most ethnic Macedonians with the regional ones that supported the Macedonian cause wanted no such Bulgarian component and opposed it, otherwise the future would’ve been even duller for us Macedonians.

[VMRO]

Originally Posted by Chicho Makedonski

The confusing thing is the Macedonians wanted no Bulgarian influence and wanted to get rid off the Bulgarian churches and replace them with Macedonian ones, also to make Macedonian an officially recognised language and offical language of the country once freed, not Bulgarian which is what the Bulgarians aimed for. So why would the Macedonians support such San Stefano Bulgaria when they clearly opposed it and any Bulgarian influence in Macedonia (atleast most of them).

I do not know much about him, so i am only speculating.

I think he was either an ethnic Bulgarian that wanted a free self governing Macedonia but with a main Bulgarian component to keep all (Bulgarian churches and schools) or he was an ethnic Macedonian that was confused and fell for the Bulgarian propaganda that the Macedonians and Bulgarians were the same people, explaining why he first supposedly wanted a San Stefano Bulgaria and basically had pro Bulgarian thoughts.

Either way we know that the Macedonians wanted a free self governing Macedonia for the Macedonians (both ethnic and regional Macedonians) where they would be the leaders of the country, Macedonian language to be the offical language of the country, to be free of foreign Greek, Bulgarian or Serbian influence and main components, whereby the growth of Macedonian churches and later on schools would take place. Ultimately to drive out the mainly forced Bulgarian ones that spreaded their propaganda to suite the needs of their peoples and interests regarding making Macedonia and its population pro Bulgarians so a greater Bulgaria would be more easily achieved even though San Stefano Bulgaria didn’t happen, Macedonia with a main Bulgarian component would’ve acted like a puppet state to Bulgaria and such borders would not of needed to happen instantly but future annexation would’ve been inevitable.

Luckily most ethnic Macedonians with the regional ones that supported the Macedonian cause wanted no such Bulgarian component and opposed it, otherwise the future would’ve been even duller for us Macedonians.

A great book to read is Petar Pop Arsov's book "Стамболовштината во Македонија и нејзините претставници" where he talks about how the Bulgarians tried to manipulate the Macedonians in the Solun high school.

I believe he was expelled with other students from the Solun high school for wanting the Macedonian language to be used instead of the imposed Bulgarian.

[Liberator of Makedonija]

Originally Posted by VMRO

A great book to read is Petar Pop Arsov's book "Стамболовштината во Македонија и нејзините претставници" where he talks about how the Bulgarians tried to manipulate the Macedonians in the Solun high school.

I believe he was expelled with other students from the Solun high school for wanting the Macedonian language to be used instead of the imposed Bulgarian.

1888-89 school year I believe. There was essentially a revolution in the school and many were expelled, including future leaders of the revolutionary movement.

[Chicho Makedonski]

Originally Posted by VMRO

A great book to read is Petar Pop Arsov's book "Стамболовштината во Македонија и нејзините претставници" where he talks about how the Bulgarians tried to manipulate the Macedonians in the Solun high school.

I believe he was expelled with other students from the Solun high school for wanting the Macedonian language to be used instead of the imposed Bulgarian.

So you believe he was an ethnic Macedonian that fell for the Bulgarian propaganda and thus had pro Bulgarian views as he supposedly stated the reason for a self governing Macedonia was because San Stefano Bulgaria wasn’t achievable ?

Still isn’t clear for me. Why would he state such thing and have pro Bulgarian views if he wanted Macedonian language instead of Bulgarian in the school and also the fact that Macedonians wanted a free Macedonia with no main Bulgarian component and no foreign influence ? It just doesn’t add up. It’s either just a fake Bulgarian created quote or he was just a confused individual.

[Liberator of Makedonija]

Yeah there is a lot of cofusion over this Chicho. I would love to know the original source cited.