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Old 05-04-2010, 05:06 AM   #21
TrueMacedonian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vangelovski View Post
TM,

You may already be aware of this site (from Yale University), but I thought I'd post it for you seeing you're a keen history nut Copies of key historical documents:

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/default.asp
Thanks Vangelovski. That's a cool site
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Old 05-04-2010, 05:08 AM   #22
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In order to get the people behind this Truman was told to "scare the hell out of the country" http://www.stwr.org/united-states-of...-and-bush.html

To secure the support of the American people for the dramatic sweep of the new policy Truman readily understood that he needed to define his doctrine in terms of broad commitment to defend American values of freedom and individual liberties.

But he also wanted Congress to approve a specific commitment to provide huge economic and military support to Greece and Turkey whose pro-Western governments were threatened by communist insurgencies.

Truman sought and received advice from Congressional leaders as he prepared to launch his doctrine. Truman was most impressed with the advice he received from Senator Arthur Vandenberg: "Mr President," said Vandenberg, "the only way you are ever going to get this is to make a speech and scare the hell out of the country".


Fear has always been a useful tool in politics.
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Old 05-04-2010, 06:19 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Bill77 View Post
"On May 16, 1948 the body of CBS News correspondent George Polk is found in the harbor of Thessaloniki several days after he'd left his hotel for an interview with Markos Vafiades of ELAS. This becomes an international news story, some say the equivalent of the Dreyfus affair (or the Lambrakis murder in the same city 15 years later). In the trial, another journalist, Gregory Staktopoulos is convicted of being an accomplice along with several guerilla leaders, (two of whom may have been dead before the murder). Staktopoulos who had worked for a local Greek Communist daily published clandestinely during the German occupation, was believed to have been the scapegoat and many theories circulate that Polk was killed by the Americans, British Intelligence, the Greek ultra-right, the communists or take your pick. Polk's articles had been very critical of the Truman Doctrine and the Greek Government. He had uncovered a scandal involving leading Royalist and Greek Foreign Minister Constantine Tsaldaris which could have brought down the government."





Well i'll be farrrked. If only we knew what this scandal was.


Bill thanks for posting this info. I think the importance of the Truman Doctrine in relation to Macedonia and the Macedonians is pretty immense considering the Macedonians were fighting oppression and fighting forced Hellenization by the state.
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Old 05-04-2010, 06:25 PM   #24
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An interesting site I found that offers some more info into the Truman Doctrine. Especially where it concerns oil - http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/In...eekCW_IAR.html

The Truman Doctrine and the Greek Civil War excerpted from the book
Intervention and Revolution
The United States in the Third World

by Richard J. Barnet
World Publishing, 1968, paperback edition


Quote:
If Clifford's articulation of the economic conflict was too ideological for Acheson's taste, his second suggestion smacked too much of realpolitik; Clifford wanted a reference in the speech to Greece's strategic importance and to "the great natural resources of the Middle East." When British Marshal Montgomery had asked the U.S. chiefs of staff in the fall of 1946 what value they attached to Middle Eastern oil, "their immediate and unanimous answer was-vital." Forrestal was almost obsessed with the strategic importance of the area to the United States. But the State Department concluded that it would create an unfortunate impression if it appeared that the enunciation of the American Responsibility had something to do with oil. The administration anticipated enough problems in distinguishing the new American relationship to the Mediterranean from Britain's imperial role. As it was, Acheson was asked some pointed questions in the hearings about possible connections between the President's dramatic announcement of America's new "responsibility" for the Eastern Mediterranean and the authorization two days earlier of the trans-Arabian pipeline. Acheson replied that there was none. The charge made by leftist critics and a few disappointed British imperialists that the Truman Doctrine was principally a piece of petroleum diplomacy is a serious distortion. Nevertheless, there is no doubt, as Stephen Xydis observes in his exhaustive study of the relevant documents, that one motive for the United States' intervention was to stabilize the area so as to "contribute to the preservation of American oil concessions there."
Oil as American foreign policy,,,,, I don't buy it
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Old 05-04-2010, 07:37 PM   #25
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http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstra...to+Greece&st=p

A NY Times article from 1947;

OIL IS BIG FACTOR IN AID TO GREECE; Continued Control of Persian Gulf Fields by U.S. and Britain Held Necessary

By J.H. CARMICAL

March 16, 1947, Sunday

A factor in the proposal that the United States Government give aid to Greece and Turkey is the vast petroleum resources of the Middle East, which are about onehalf of the world's known supply. Continued control of the oil fields of the Persian Gulf by United States and British interests is considered necessary to the economy of Europe.
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Old 05-04-2010, 09:08 PM   #26
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There is no need to make quotes and cites to express that.
  • Oil was the major reason of WW-1 and destruction of Turkish Empire was a necessity to capture oil rich territories.
  • Then WW-2 was an attempt of Hitler to take the control of these energy sources on behalf of Germany.
  • 1st Gulf war has been done to secure Kuwait`s oil fields.
  • USA occupied Iraq to secure the oil fields at northern Iraq.


Turkish Petroleum Company(TPC) which formed in 1912 was world`s second petroleum company after the one in Iran. Shareholders was the "BP" and "Shell" under the supervision of Ottoman Empire. They negotiated with Turkey to start digging for oil but they couldn't reach an agreement with us but 2 years laters, WW-1 started and British occupied all oil rich territories and became the monopoly. After the war, its renamed as "Iraq Petroleum Company";

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Petroleum_Company

http://countrystudies.us/iraq/53.htm




I fear that the next step will be Caucasus now for the rich oil and natural gas sources around Caspian sea. So probably thats why we see increasing tension in the countries there nowadays.

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Old 05-04-2010, 09:14 PM   #27
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You can't reduce all those wars to the need for oil. It's too simplistic and highly innacurate.
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Old 05-04-2010, 09:21 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sf. View Post
You can't reduce all those wars to the need for oil. It's too simplistic and highly innacurate.

Maybe not the only reason but I am saying that energy sources was the major reason for all of these wars. It`s not difficult to figure this out if you got some history knowledge and reasoning. Then you can start to see that nothing is complicated as it seems and people`s motives are actually as simple as this.

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Old 05-04-2010, 10:34 PM   #29
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Except for insulting my knowledge and intelligence, you have done nothing to advance your argument.
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Old 05-05-2010, 08:23 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sf. View Post
Except for insulting my knowledge and intelligence, you have done nothing to advance your argument.

because you still didn't tell me your counter-argument.



Tell me then, what could be the other major factors???
  • Liberate the Arabs from Turkish regime?
  • Create bigger Armenia for the sake of Armenians?
  • Hitler attacked the British alliance at WW-2 only to prove superiority of Germanic race???
  • Save Kurds from Saddam regime and create Kurdistan for the prosperity of them???
  • Save the Bedouins and Wahabi Arabs in Kuwait from Saddam`s oppression, so they can continue to shit on golden toilets and drive limousines made by Ferrari???


Which one???

Last edited by Onur; 05-05-2010 at 09:59 AM.
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