The Truman Doctrine

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  • Vangelovski
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 8531

    #16
    TM,

    You may already be aware of this site (from Yale University), but I thought I'd post it for you seeing you're a keen history nut Copies of key historical documents:

    http://avalon.law.yale.edu/default.asp
    If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

    The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

    Comment

    • Bill77
      Senior Member
      • Oct 2009
      • 4545

      #17
      YouTube - The Complete Truman Doctrine Part 1 (1947)

      Time line 7:02
      Quote: "The government of Greece is not perfect. Nevertheles, it represents 85% of the members of the Greek parliament. Who were chosen in an election last year. Foriegn observers including 692 Americans considered this election to be a fair expresion, of the view of Greek people."


      Not that i give a shit about the Greek comunists or the Greek civil war. I just want to point out the west lies in particulor the US. Was the election realy fair or a load of US bullshit. Here is something i read regarding that elections Truman talks about, but first i will briefly post the led up to the start of the civil war.

      "When the EAM ministers resign from the government a protest rally is staged by their supporters in Syntagma Square followed by a general strike. The British ambassador demands the government to not allow the Greek people to express their views through this protest (as they are entitled to in any true democracy) and the government agrees to break up the rally, by force if they have to. Whether by accident or by plan the police open fire on the demonstrators, killing several."

      Hmmmmmm Democracy? No Dictatership inspired by UK? Yes


      "In the United Nations Soviet Ambassador Vishinsky details attacks on Greek citizens by the British backed security battalions which British Foreign minister declared propaganda, claiming that upcoming elections in March would be free and honest. But with the countryside a battleground of murders and reprisals the communists want the elections postponed at least until order can be restored. The British tell the Greeks that the elections can't be postponed because the allied mission of election observers can't stay longer. Prime Minister Sophoulis declares that the elections will be held with or without the communists but privately urges them to participate."

      "The British government pressures the Greeks to hold the elections as planned though they know the results will rip the country apart. Fourteen of the thirty-five ministers in the Greek government are against the elections, nine of whom resign. But it was not only the British at fault for this rush to a marred democracy. The United States made it clear to Prime Minister Sophoulis that it was in Greece's best interest not to postpone the elections. So despite knowing that disaster was around the next corner, the Greek government declared that since not even a two month postponement would be permitted by the UK and the US, elections would go on as planned. In the first free elections in 10 years only half the eligible voters of Greece actually voted. The two rightwing parties got a majority of these votes. The foreign observers low-balled the abstentions to give the election validity and claimed the elections fair since they had observed no violence or voter intimidation. But who was there to intimidate if the left did not participate?"

      So was it a fair and Democratic Election?

      Finaly, would these Western Democratic Dogs, alow Macedonia not to postpone elections if the pet Albanians refused to participate?
      Last edited by Bill77; 05-03-2010, 11:22 PM.
      http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=120873#post120873

      Comment

      • Bill77
        Senior Member
        • Oct 2009
        • 4545

        #18
        "On May 16, 1948 the body of CBS News correspondent George Polk is found in the harbor of Thessaloniki several days after he'd left his hotel for an interview with Markos Vafiades of ELAS. This becomes an international news story, some say the equivalent of the Dreyfus affair (or the Lambrakis murder in the same city 15 years later). In the trial, another journalist, Gregory Staktopoulos is convicted of being an accomplice along with several guerilla leaders, (two of whom may have been dead before the murder). Staktopoulos who had worked for a local Greek Communist daily published clandestinely during the German occupation, was believed to have been the scapegoat and many theories circulate that Polk was killed by the Americans, British Intelligence, the Greek ultra-right, the communists or take your pick. Polk's articles had been very critical of the Truman Doctrine and the Greek Government. He had uncovered a scandal involving leading Royalist and Greek Foreign Minister Constantine Tsaldaris which could have brought down the government."





        Well i'll be farrrked. If only we knew what this scandal was.
        http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=120873#post120873

        Comment

        • Bill77
          Senior Member
          • Oct 2009
          • 4545

          #19
          Originally posted by Bill77 View Post
          "On May 16, 1948 the body of CBS News correspondent George Polk is found in the harbor of Thessaloniki several days after he'd left his hotel for an interview with Markos Vafiades of ELAS. This becomes an international news story, some say the equivalent of the Dreyfus affair (or the Lambrakis murder in the same city 15 years later). In the trial, another journalist, Gregory Staktopoulos is convicted of being an accomplice along with several guerilla leaders, (two of whom may have been dead before the murder). Staktopoulos who had worked for a local Greek Communist daily published clandestinely during the German occupation, was believed to have been the scapegoat and many theories circulate that Polk was killed by the Americans, British Intelligence, the Greek ultra-right, the communists or take your pick. Polk's articles had been very critical of the Truman Doctrine and the Greek Government. He had uncovered a scandal involving leading Royalist and Greek Foreign Minister Constantine Tsaldaris which could have brought down the government."
          Quote: "Whoever killed Polk it was obvious to people that the communists are the scapegoats and unlikely perpetrators. When the New York Newspaper Guild attempts to send an independent team of journalists to Greece to investigate Polk's death they are pre-empted by a committee of prestigious media representatives, headed by Washington columnist Walter Lippmann. The Lippmann Committee refuses to back an independent inquiry, working with the State Department in monitoring the Greek government's investigation and appointing General William (Wild Bill) Donovan, the wartime head of the Office of Strategic Services (OSS), as their counsel. Under pressure by the Americans to make an arrest Staktopoulos is picked up and tortured until he names the killers as two high-ranking communists on orders from the Kremlin and 'admits' his role was to set-up Polk. Unlikely story, but the Greek and International press bought it and that was the end of it. Except that Staktopoulos declares his innocence until he dies in 1988. In January 2004 his widow, Theodora Zisimopoulou-Staktopoulou’s appeal for a posthumous retrial based on claims that new evidence proves his innocence, is rejected by the Supreme Court of Greece. Clearly if the US and Greek governments were not involved in the murder their investigators had failed to ask the most important question when one wants to solve any crime; Motive. Who had the stronger motive for wanting Polk dead? The communists? Why? Was the interview with Markos so bad? On the other hand the Greek government might go to great lengths to avoid being exposed as corrupt or in the pocket of the US. And as for the Americans, one life is cheap to protect the world from communism".
          http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=120873#post120873

          Comment

          • Risto the Great
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 15658

            #20
            Originally posted by Bill77 View Post
            Well i'll be farrrked. If only we knew what this scandal was.
            Threats to journalists carry many different lessons, but one is constant: People who would intimidate or kill journalists are usually terrified that someone might find out. Journalists who want to protect one another need do nothing more than what should come naturally to them: report on threats to journalists--big threats and small threats, whether they are directed against the international luminaries of the profession or small timers. Non-journalists can also play a big part in the fight to protect journalists. Next to tough and timely reporting that establishes the facts of a case, nothing protects a journalist so much as public outrage and public support. Ordinary citizens can play an enormous role by pressuring thugs and tyrants who would like to stifle the freedom of the press. The freedom of journalists is consequently the bedrock of freedom for all people. Chapters and contributors to "Journalists in Peril "include: "The Clash of Arms in Exotic Locales" by Peter Arnett; "Press Freedom--Balkan Style" by Kati Marton; "Grim Prospects for Hong Kong" by John Schidlovsky; "Russian Reporters--Between a Hammer and an Anvil" by losif M. Dzyaloshinsky; "Defiant Publishing in Nigeria" by Dapo Olorunyomi; "Turkish Journalists on Trial" by Ahmet Emin; "In America, Justice for Some" by Ana Arana; and "Blood and Fear in Italy" by Candida Curzi. The tragic accounts detailed in "Journalists in Peril "are poignantly written and are important reading for all concerned with democracy in the world, especially political scientists, government officials, and those involved in the various communications professions.


            Sending $25,000 out of Greece into a Chase Manhattan bank account according to the above link.
            Risto the Great
            MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
            "Holding my breath for the revolution."

            Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

            Comment

            • TrueMacedonian
              Senior Member
              • Jan 2009
              • 3810

              #21
              Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
              TM,

              You may already be aware of this site (from Yale University), but I thought I'd post it for you seeing you're a keen history nut Copies of key historical documents:

              http://avalon.law.yale.edu/default.asp
              Thanks Vangelovski. That's a cool site
              Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!

              Comment

              • TrueMacedonian
                Senior Member
                • Jan 2009
                • 3810

                #22
                In order to get the people behind this Truman was told to "scare the hell out of the country" http://www.stwr.org/united-states-of...-and-bush.html

                To secure the support of the American people for the dramatic sweep of the new policy Truman readily understood that he needed to define his doctrine in terms of broad commitment to defend American values of freedom and individual liberties.

                But he also wanted Congress to approve a specific commitment to provide huge economic and military support to Greece and Turkey whose pro-Western governments were threatened by communist insurgencies.

                Truman sought and received advice from Congressional leaders as he prepared to launch his doctrine. Truman was most impressed with the advice he received from Senator Arthur Vandenberg: "Mr President," said Vandenberg, "the only way you are ever going to get this is to make a speech and scare the hell out of the country".


                Fear has always been a useful tool in politics.
                Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!

                Comment

                • TrueMacedonian
                  Senior Member
                  • Jan 2009
                  • 3810

                  #23
                  Originally posted by Bill77 View Post
                  "On May 16, 1948 the body of CBS News correspondent George Polk is found in the harbor of Thessaloniki several days after he'd left his hotel for an interview with Markos Vafiades of ELAS. This becomes an international news story, some say the equivalent of the Dreyfus affair (or the Lambrakis murder in the same city 15 years later). In the trial, another journalist, Gregory Staktopoulos is convicted of being an accomplice along with several guerilla leaders, (two of whom may have been dead before the murder). Staktopoulos who had worked for a local Greek Communist daily published clandestinely during the German occupation, was believed to have been the scapegoat and many theories circulate that Polk was killed by the Americans, British Intelligence, the Greek ultra-right, the communists or take your pick. Polk's articles had been very critical of the Truman Doctrine and the Greek Government. He had uncovered a scandal involving leading Royalist and Greek Foreign Minister Constantine Tsaldaris which could have brought down the government."





                  Well i'll be farrrked. If only we knew what this scandal was.


                  Bill thanks for posting this info. I think the importance of the Truman Doctrine in relation to Macedonia and the Macedonians is pretty immense considering the Macedonians were fighting oppression and fighting forced Hellenization by the state.
                  Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!

                  Comment

                  • TrueMacedonian
                    Senior Member
                    • Jan 2009
                    • 3810

                    #24
                    An interesting site I found that offers some more info into the Truman Doctrine. Especially where it concerns oil - http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/In...eekCW_IAR.html

                    The Truman Doctrine and the Greek Civil War excerpted from the book
                    Intervention and Revolution
                    The United States in the Third World

                    by Richard J. Barnet
                    World Publishing, 1968, paperback edition


                    If Clifford's articulation of the economic conflict was too ideological for Acheson's taste, his second suggestion smacked too much of realpolitik; Clifford wanted a reference in the speech to Greece's strategic importance and to "the great natural resources of the Middle East." When British Marshal Montgomery had asked the U.S. chiefs of staff in the fall of 1946 what value they attached to Middle Eastern oil, "their immediate and unanimous answer was-vital." Forrestal was almost obsessed with the strategic importance of the area to the United States. But the State Department concluded that it would create an unfortunate impression if it appeared that the enunciation of the American Responsibility had something to do with oil. The administration anticipated enough problems in distinguishing the new American relationship to the Mediterranean from Britain's imperial role. As it was, Acheson was asked some pointed questions in the hearings about possible connections between the President's dramatic announcement of America's new "responsibility" for the Eastern Mediterranean and the authorization two days earlier of the trans-Arabian pipeline. Acheson replied that there was none. The charge made by leftist critics and a few disappointed British imperialists that the Truman Doctrine was principally a piece of petroleum diplomacy is a serious distortion. Nevertheless, there is no doubt, as Stephen Xydis observes in his exhaustive study of the relevant documents, that one motive for the United States' intervention was to stabilize the area so as to "contribute to the preservation of American oil concessions there."
                    Oil as American foreign policy,,,,, I don't buy it
                    Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!

                    Comment

                    • TrueMacedonian
                      Senior Member
                      • Jan 2009
                      • 3810

                      #25


                      A NY Times article from 1947;

                      OIL IS BIG FACTOR IN AID TO GREECE; Continued Control of Persian Gulf Fields by U.S. and Britain Held Necessary

                      By J.H. CARMICAL

                      March 16, 1947, Sunday

                      A factor in the proposal that the United States Government give aid to Greece and Turkey is the vast petroleum resources of the Middle East, which are about onehalf of the world's known supply. Continued control of the oil fields of the Persian Gulf by United States and British interests is considered necessary to the economy of Europe.
                      Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!

                      Comment

                      • Onur
                        Senior Member
                        • Apr 2010
                        • 2389

                        #26
                        There is no need to make quotes and cites to express that.
                        • Oil was the major reason of WW-1 and destruction of Turkish Empire was a necessity to capture oil rich territories.

                        • Then WW-2 was an attempt of Hitler to take the control of these energy sources on behalf of Germany.

                        • 1st Gulf war has been done to secure Kuwait`s oil fields.

                        • USA occupied Iraq to secure the oil fields at northern Iraq.



                        Turkish Petroleum Company(TPC) which formed in 1912 was world`s second petroleum company after the one in Iran. Shareholders was the "BP" and "Shell" under the supervision of Ottoman Empire. They negotiated with Turkey to start digging for oil but they couldn't reach an agreement with us but 2 years laters, WW-1 started and British occupied all oil rich territories and became the monopoly. After the war, its renamed as "Iraq Petroleum Company";

                        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Petroleum_Company

                        http://countrystudies.us/iraq/53.htm




                        I fear that the next step will be Caucasus now for the rich oil and natural gas sources around Caspian sea. So probably thats why we see increasing tension in the countries there nowadays.
                        Last edited by Onur; 05-04-2010, 09:17 PM.

                        Comment

                        • sf.
                          Member
                          • Jan 2010
                          • 387

                          #27
                          You can't reduce all those wars to the need for oil. It's too simplistic and highly innacurate.
                          Integrity without knowledge is weak and useless, and knowledge without integrity is dangerous and dreadful. - Samuel Johnson (1709-1784)

                          Comment

                          • Onur
                            Senior Member
                            • Apr 2010
                            • 2389

                            #28
                            Originally posted by sf. View Post
                            You can't reduce all those wars to the need for oil. It's too simplistic and highly innacurate.

                            Maybe not the only reason but I am saying that energy sources was the major reason for all of these wars. It`s not difficult to figure this out if you got some history knowledge and reasoning. Then you can start to see that nothing is complicated as it seems and people`s motives are actually as simple as this.
                            Last edited by Onur; 05-04-2010, 09:24 PM.

                            Comment

                            • sf.
                              Member
                              • Jan 2010
                              • 387

                              #29
                              Except for insulting my knowledge and intelligence, you have done nothing to advance your argument.
                              Integrity without knowledge is weak and useless, and knowledge without integrity is dangerous and dreadful. - Samuel Johnson (1709-1784)

                              Comment

                              • Onur
                                Senior Member
                                • Apr 2010
                                • 2389

                                #30
                                Originally posted by sf. View Post
                                Except for insulting my knowledge and intelligence, you have done nothing to advance your argument.

                                because you still didn't tell me your counter-argument.



                                Tell me then, what could be the other major factors???
                                • Liberate the Arabs from Turkish regime?

                                • Create bigger Armenia for the sake of Armenians?

                                • Hitler attacked the British alliance at WW-2 only to prove superiority of Germanic race???

                                • Save Kurds from Saddam regime and create Kurdistan for the prosperity of them???

                                • Save the Bedouins and Wahabi Arabs in Kuwait from Saddam`s oppression, so they can continue to shit on golden toilets and drive limousines made by Ferrari???



                                Which one???
                                Last edited by Onur; 05-05-2010, 09:59 AM.

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