![]() |
|||||||||
|
|||||||||
|
![]() |
|
Thread Tools |
![]() |
#1 | ||
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Sydney
Posts: 98
![]() |
![]() Everybody has heard of the Arvanite Albanians, Vlachs, Karaman Turk, Roma, Chinese who are all now proud neo-Hellenes, or more recently, self proclaimed "Greek-Macedonians", I thought I start this thread to give other lessor known peoples who form an integral part of modern Greece's 98% 'pure Greek', richly coloured multi-Ethnic rainbow credit where credit is due.
The Urums http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urums Quote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiochian_Greeks Quote:
|
||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#2 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,969
![]() |
![]() good post napoleon and then there is the armenian and kurdish greeks too.
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#3 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: In front of my Lap Top
Posts: 4,545
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() I have missed this thread somehow. So here's my chance to add something to our MTO library regarding this subject.
This is all borrowed from "My Opera" blog back in 25. FEBRUARY 2009, 00:17:22. http://my.opera.com/ancientmacedonia...ther-urumi-why Greeks don`t have a specific name as a tribe, but they call each other Urumi.Why? The dictionary of three languages from Georgi Pulevski For the "greeks", Georgia tells us that they are called the name Gorci (gora-forest), and the turks called them Karakachans. “But Greeks don`t have a specific name as a tribe, but they call each other Urumi (romans ?) but according to history we know "greeks" as Egyptians http://my.opera.com/ancientmacedonia...ow.dml/3003682 and not Europeans”. But,what does the word Urumi really mean? Modern Yunanistans belive that word URUMI means ROMANS. They are wrong. URUM`s and ROMANS Rome=Ρώμη Urum http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=uum A language of Georgia ISO 639-3: Rum-Population 97,746 in Georgia (2000 WCD). Population total all countries: 192,729. Region Caucasus. In recent years there has been emigration of Urum speakers from Georgia to Greece. Also spoken in Greece, Ukraine. Dialects Related to Crimean Tatar. A number of inherently intelligible dialects. Classification-Altaic, Turkic Comments Spoken by ethnic 'Greeks'. Also spoken in: Ukraine Language name Urum Population 94,983 in Ukraine (2000 WCD). Region- A few villages in the Donetsk Oblast of southeastern Ukraine. 10 villages total. Comments Spoken by ethnic 'Greeks'. URUMI http://www.qypchaq.unesco.kz/urums-en.htm The Urums are a national minority... The official name of these people is Greeks. North Azovian Urums - Greeks Speaking Turkic Language more about Urums (Greeks) http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=urums&btnG=Search there is mention of 686 Urums being deported from this settlement in 1778 (Garkavec′ 1999: 8); this village, spelt Beščv or Bešuj, renamed Dravjanka, does not exist today (1999,91); Beš Qurtqa ; Beš Kurtka ; Bes Qurtqa ; Beschkurta ; Bes Qurtqa ; Qurtaj ; Ücqurtqa ; Bišqurtqa,... Naselenite mesta od kade se iseluvani URUMITE... sporedete so prviot popis vo ATINA,kade sto ziveele SHQIP.... Athens (1850 y).. http://my.opera.com/ancientmacedonia...ow.dml/2951693 This Western creation of "the glorious continuing story of the Greek People".... After the War of Independence, when a Greek country arose, several Fanariot families came and established themselves around the king.... It is because Athens, twenty-five years ago, was only an Albanian village. The Albanians formed, and still form, almost the whole of the population of Attica ; and within three leagues of the capital, villages are to be found where Greek is hardly understood. Athens has been rapidly peopled with men of all kinds and nations; that explains the ugliness of the Athenian type.... Tsalka Urums http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...earch&aq=f&oq= They are sometimes referred to as the Trialeti Greeks or the Transcaucasian Turcophone Greeks. Pontian Greeks call them Τσαλκαλιδείς (Tsalkalideis); a name that refers to the Georgian town, where Urums once made up the largest ethnic community. From the 18th to the early 20th century the Caucasus experienced mass migrations of Greeks from the Ottoman Empire..... Subdivisions of Georgia... Telavi, Terjola, Tetritskaro, Tianeti, Tsageri, Tsalenjikha, Tsalka (kako gejcite pontijci) Tsalka kako tsigani.. calka kako cigani ..... cal=to move on or forward , proceed , go away Kara Kacanlar (tur)=gejci=шумски бегалци Tzalka=Talka=luta,zalutan urum =fear, dread, alarm=strav,crn p.s... Τσίγκας=Tsigas http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Tsigas&btnG=Search =Tsigan? explanation of modern URUMS about the origin of their last names My last name means west in Turkish but hellenized (of course) The history behind my last name is - During the Ottoman occupation of Greece my Great x7 or 8 Grandpa (there were no last names in this period) and his brother, both from Pygros, were going around secretly killing Turks, taking their weapons, money, etc... The Turks caught on and went around to try and find my Grandpa and his brother so they changed their name from Stassias or Stassinopolis (I forget, got to ask my Dad) to what it is today- West in Turkish...... other Urumians "changed names".... Terzis (Terzi=tailor) Tsiakiris(Blue-eyed) Kanlis(Kanli means in Turkish bloody and metaphorical murderer,according to some old members of this family they originate from Halkidiki.An ancestor of them killed a Turk and he fled to our village) Tsevremetzis(tsevreme=roast) Tsiaousis(sergeant) Pechlivanis(wrestler) Tsiplakis(tsiplak=nude,metaphorical poor) Daoultzis(drumer) Giouzelis(handsome) Garipis(diligent) There are some other obviously of Turkish origin but i (URUM) can't etymologize them,like Moutaftsis,Ravanis,e.t.c Kara; Karabachos; Karabatsos; Karabinis; Karabinos Karabochos; Karadimos; Karafilis; Karagentsidis; Karageorgis Karageorgos; Karagiannis; Karaglanis; Karagogeos;Karagounis Karahalios; Karaiskakis; Karakatsani; Karakinos; Karakotsios Karamanlis; Karameros; Karanasos; Karaoulanis; Karatossos Karavidas and etc... note: kara (turkish)=black (non-white person) Kara(Macedonian)=religious austerity L. ; a husband , master , lord ; from SAN=kara Karan=king Up here in northern Greece the refugees from Asia Minor, those we call Tourkophone, had names that ended in -oglou. These were changed when they came here. -opoulos was substituated for -oglou.
__________________
http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=120873#post120873 Last edited by Bill77; 09-26-2010 at 06:40 AM. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#4 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Macedonian Outpost
Posts: 13,617
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() There are still plenty of 'oglous' who think they are pure Greek.
__________________
In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#5 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: In front of my Lap Top
Posts: 4,545
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() Quote:
If they wanted to really Hellenise there names and hide there Turkish past, why did they not just call them selves "Mavrosmanlis" and "Mavrostzaferis" ? I suppose Greeks think they are a light complexioned race, Just like Alexander The Great, Not a Mavros race. ![]()
__________________
http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=120873#post120873 |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#6 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Izmir, Turkiye
Posts: 2,389
![]() |
![]() Urums are christian Tatar Turks by ethnically and linguistically. There is no doubt about that.
They lived around Crimea(historical Tatar land) to today`s Georgia, Azerbaijan and they never spoke Greek throughout history. Their mothertongue is Tatar dialect of Turkish as you can guess. They had pretty much no relation whatsoever with Greeks or Greek language except their adherence to Istanbul patriarchy in Ottoman Empire era. When Russians decided to expel all the Tatar Turks out of Crimea, they were also the subjects of the great exodus even tough they weren't muslims because they were Turks nevertheless. They forcibly migrated into Anatolia. Some stayed in Turkey but some migrated into Greece. The ones who gone to Greece most likely undergone into Hellenic assimilation machine. Quote:
![]() Moutafsis; "Mutafchi" is like a tailor but he only tails rough materials like canvas for tents and stuff, hard leathers and so on. Ravanis; Might be related with the dessert called "revani". So, this person might be a chef who makes desserts. I can help our Greek forum members too, if they wanna learn the meaning of their surnames. So, Thessalo-niki, whats your surname, wanna learn what it means? ![]() Quote:
Actually, we gotta multiply the number of people who has "-ouglu" names with 10 cuz most of these people changed their surnames with "-is, -dis, -lis, -poulos" suffixes after they gone to Greece. Probably only 1 of 10 people still carries the surname with "-ouglu" in Greece currently. Last edited by Onur; 09-26-2010 at 09:32 AM. |
||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#7 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Macedonian Outpost
Posts: 13,617
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() I know plenty of them 'oglous' here in Australia also, they aren't common, but there is enough of them to go around, lol.
__________________
In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#8 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Izmir, Turkiye
Posts: 2,389
![]() |
![]() There is also one interesting fact about these Turkish names;
When you ask this phenomenon of Turkish named "so-called Hellenes" to an ordinary Greek man in Athens, he would probably tell you that the Turks forced them to use Turkish names. BUT, when you see the names of Greeks in Istanbul or Izmir, you can NEVER find a local Greek man with a Turkish name throughout history. For example, can you imagine a Phanariot from Istanbul with a Turkish name, lol? The ones who had Turkish names was either christian Turks or the mix of Turks and Greeks who lived around central Anatolia and Blacksea or rural sides of Aegean Anatolia. They were probably christian Turks tough cuz when you analyze the social environment in Ottoman Empire, it`s hard to believe a Greek speaking person from Izmir or Istanbul would marry with a Turkish speaking christian from rural places cuz most of Greeks from Izmir and Istanbul was very rich people who deals with trading businesses or artisans. The mix of Greeks and Turks is pretty much only possible at Blacksea, so-called "Pontian Greeks" cuz we can see many evidences of Greek-Turkish marriages for there. I am sure most of Pontian people in Greece have relatives in Turkey and vice versa. Last edited by Onur; 09-26-2010 at 10:30 AM. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#9 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Izmir, Turkiye
Posts: 2,389
![]() |
![]() Quote:
This is another laughable fallacy. These people are christian Arabs who had no relation with Greeks or Greek language except being adherent to Istanbul patriarchy in Ottoman Empire era. Their situation was just like the Urums. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#10 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: makedonska colonia
Posts: 3,869
![]() |
![]() onur, wiki is not credible bratko
__________________
"The moral revolution - the revolution of the mind, heart and soul of an enslaved people, is our greatest task."__________________Gotse Delchev |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | |
Thread Tools | |
|
|