The utter destruction of Greek propaganda

[Epirot]

There has been a proliferation of immense propaganda on some net sites owned by Greek nationalists. One of most celebrated propagandist is without any doubt, a 40-year old type who claim to be from Serres. His chauvinistic attitude against Macedonians, Albanians and Turks can be observed in every post of him: his daily job is to pick up selectively some vague quotes out of their context; thus to please his fellow maggots, he posts boring scans containing underlined misleading passages that suit to his nationalistic agenda.

I know how to deal with such a forger: I always examine a little further his beloved books, and in most case I find out the opposite of what he tried to pass as truth. A few months ago, I've opened a new thread in Maknews "Greek propaganda over internet', where I debunked his notorious propaganda. Currently, this thread isn't available after some technical errs that occurred on Maknews. Fortunately, most of books I revealed there are to be found on my personal archive. So, I'll post them in the following days.

Currently, he has centered his forger activity in the so-called 'AMAC' (a chauvinistic Greek circle in Australia) tutored by: Andreas Kyropoulos (a.k.a Dr. Evil) and Panayote Tsoukalas (nicknamed 'akritas'). Actually, most of his post since he appeared in "AMAC" are signed under the nickname 'Kapetan Doukas'. He came occasionaly in Macedoniantruth camouflaged under various nicknames, while his recent posts are signed under 'Agamoi Thytai'.

[Epirot]

This infamous net personage appears to be obsessed with the origin of others. As I said b4, he target in daily basis, Macedonians, Albanians, Turks and others, to whom he launch a derogatory campaign.

Furthermore, he seem to be an ardent follower of 'Megali Idea'. Perhaps it appears as paradox, but history has constantly provided that behind the facade of most pure 'Hellenes' stands a non-Greek: either Albanian, Vlachs, Turk or Slav.

I think I know the source of his frustration: he came from Serres (a multi-ethnic region where many people have intermingled for centuries).





An extract taken from "The Close Racial Kinship Between the Greeks, Bulgarians, and Turks: Macedonia and Thrace" of George Nakratzas.

The majority of population of Serres in 1878 consist mostly of Vlachs and Slavic speaking.

The urban population is considerable; the Vlachs of Salonica, Monastir, Serres and other large towns are, for the most part, descended from refugees from Moschopolis, once the principal centre of Macedonian commerce.

http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Macedonia

The Circassians, who occupy some villages in the neighbourhood of Serres, now scarcely number 3000...

http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Macedonia

The Jews now found in the country descend from refugees who fled from Spain during the persecutions at the end of the 15th century: they speak a dialect of Spanish, which they write with Hebrew characters. They form a flourishing community at Salonica, which numbers more than half the population: their colonies at Monastir, Serres and other towns are poor. A small proportion of the Jews, known as by the Turks, have embraced Mahommedanism.

http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Macedonia

The "Vlach" or non-Roma population of Jumava began to decline. Having consolidated their ownership of the fields, they looked for greener pastures, investing their wealth not in the old community but rather in cities such as Serres,

Bright Balkan morning: Romani lives & the power of music in Greek ... - Page 137

In Eastern Macedonia Koutsovlachs settled at Serres, Drdma, Xanthi, Kavala and Nevrokop, and formed communities at Ano Tzoumayia, Kato Tzoumayia, Peristera and a colony at ...

History of Macedonia, 1354-1833:
Apostolos Euangelou Vakalopoulos - 1973

Take, for instance, the state of affairs in Djoumaya, a little town between Salonica and Serres, with a population of some six thousand souls, out of which perhaps five thousand are Christian and the rest Mohammedan. The former community is chiefly made up of Bulgarians and Vlachs, all calling themselves Greek, supporting several Greek schools attended by pupils of both sexes, and owning allegiance to the Orthodox Greek Church. The Bulgarian Exarch's propaganda, however, which is working hard to gain over this district, has established here a school — but so far without pupils, save a score or so imported from other districts. The charmingly picturesque town of Serres
forms also a sphere for all the various political and religious propaganda, Servian, Roumanian, and Greek, which, during the last quarter of a century, have striven to establish claims to the possession of Macedonia, each and all of them
intent on persuading the inhabitants of the district that they belong to one or other of these nationalities. To put the position briefly, each of these nationalities is pitted against the rest, and all are equally antagonistic to their common tyrant, the Turk, against whom, however, their mutual jealousies will not now, any more than at the period of the Ottoman conquest, allow them to combine. Though living in close contact with each other, and with the Turks and other Moslems of the country, each of these Christian nationalities has its own separate existence, its separate internal government, churches, customs, costume, and language; and in the towns, its separate mahallah, or quarter, outside of which the houses of its members are seldom found. The Porte, as already mentioned, exercises no jurisdiction in the internal affairs of its Christian subjects, which are regulated in each diocese by a council of the chief inhabitants, presided over by the Bishop or archbishop, who also acts as intermediary between their flocks and the Turkish civil authorities when they have any disagreement with Moslems.

Turkish life in town and country
Lucy Mary Jane Garnett - 1904

Many villages have a mixed population of Turks and Christians. The country between Serres and the Bulgarian frontier contains a large proportion of Pomaks, or Bulgarian Muhamedans.

The Balkan question: the present condition of the Balkans and of ...
Luigi Villari - 1905

I bet he is a little confused on his real origin. He can neither know, nor deny his origin, which varies from Vlach, Slav, Jew, Circassian, Turk and Pomak. He has managed to give an end to this unsolved puzzle of unknown identity: he's descended from the ancient Hellenes

[cultea]

Maybe this should be merged here

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=4527&highlight=serres

[Onur]

Truth hurts and it hurts even more if you are Greek.

Epirot, your message here is quite comprehensive but if you drive a Greek into a corner, they are ready for their psychological justification. They will immediately tell you that even if their grandparents were non-Greeks, that wouldn't matter much cuz they were supposedly Greek ~3000 years ago anyway and they just returned to their "true identity". Simple as that and this is the way they relieve their inner confusion.

You can see this behavior in Voltron`s messages about his Vlach cousins;

I know about the Turks and Hellenized Vlachs. That doesnt change the fact that those are Greeks though. Vlachs are one of the most indeginous groups in the Balkans and there is enough evidence to suggest they could very well been Latin speaking Greeks. Today they have been reintroduced to their original language which is obviously Greek and are one of our most fervent patriots.

He is right about that non-Greeks trying to be even more Greek than Greeks themselves by being the most fervent patriots. This is not a coincidence either. This is a common behavior of foreigners which can be seen in any country for securing their acceptance into their new society and it also works for relieving their inner stress again.

They sometimes go as extreme as possible tough. For example, ask them about us, about who we are. According to them, we are also Greeks who thinks themselves as Albanians or Turks. Most of them aren't even aware what was the language and customs of their grandparents but strangely, they are so sure about their hellenic lineage of ~3000 years ago and they cant even realize the absurdity here. Go figure!!!


Edit: Btw Voltron, why you are using the fake coat of arms of Gagauz Turks as your profile picture, altered and Grecized one by your idiotic so-called patriots?? You first said that your parents was from Istanbul, then you said that you have Vlach cousins in Aegean Macedonia, now you are using the altered Gagauz coat of arms in your profile!



Who are you and what you are trying to do??? Are you hellenized Gagauz??? so thats how you were able to write some Turkish sentences with your other account named "Ottoman??? Are you one of the "fervent" but non-Greek patriots you`ve talking about???

[Agamoi Thytai]

An extract taken from "The Close Racial Kinship Between the Greeks, Bulgarians, and Turks: Macedonia and Thrace" of George Nakratzas.

The majority of population of Serres in 1878 consist mostly of Vlachs and Slavic speaking.

There were certainly non-Greek ethnicities in the town of Serres and the vicinity,however Greeks were clearly the majority among the Christian ethnicities in the town itself and in a big part of the countryside.You quoted Nakratzas,the advisor of vinozito,a very reliable source!And he cites Stephan Verkovich,the infamous Bulgarophile Croat?I'd rather prefer the view of Alexander Vasiliev,a world renown historian:

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo321/zratak/vasiliev.jpg

Or the first hand accounts of people who visited that town in Ottoman time:

George Abbott,1903

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn17/kostas68/serabot1.gif

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr267/vertken/serresabot217.jpg

The Missionary Herald magazine,1851

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn17/kostas68/misher1851fron.png

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn17/kostas68/misher1851258.gif

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn17/kostas68/misher1851259.gif

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn17/kostas68/misher1851260.gif

The report of the Carnegie commission:

http://v1.iimmgg.com/images/is8gr/d94a9e9e93a8cb3a9c36c825c302b8a4.jpg

Even the Bulgarian geographer,Vasil Kanchov who wrote a book about the ethnography of Macedonia in 1903,that is a sworn enemy of Greeks who had no reason to favour their interests,(on the contrary,he probablu tried to diminish the real number of the Greeks) doesn't agree with Mr.Nakratzas' assumptions and shows Greeks as the predominant Christian ethnicity in the town:

http://v1.iimmgg.com/images/is8gr/1dc0f08f7c543149e361c6ffdee3a94c.jpg

[makedonche]

Onur
Hopefully he's one of the 150,000 public servants that are about to lose their jobs! When you look at the volume of posts he makes it's obvious he's got too much time on his hands or is paid to do it or paid while doing it!

[Voltron]

There has been a proliferation of immense propaganda on some net sites owned by Greek nationalists. One of most celebrated propagandist is without any doubt, a 40-year old type who claim to be from Serres. His chauvinistic attitude against Macedonians, Albanians and Turks can be observed in every post of him: his daily job is to pick up selectively some vague quotes out of their context; thus to please his fellow maggots, he posts boring scans containing underlined misleading passages that suit to his nationalistic agenda.

I know how to deal with such a forger: I always examine a little further his beloved books, and in most case I find out the opposite of what he tried to pass as truth. A few months ago, I've opened a new thread in Maknews "Greek propaganda over internet', where I debunked his notorious propaganda. Currently, this thread isn't available after some technical errs that occurred on Maknews. Fortunately, most of books I revealed there are to be found on my personal archive. So, I'll post them in the following days.

Currently, he has centered his forger activity in the so-called 'AMAC' (a chauvinistic Greek circle in Australia) tutored by: Andreas Kyropoulos (a.k.a Dr. Evil) and Panayote Tsoukalas (nicknamed 'akritas'). Actually, most of his post since he appeared in "AMAC" are signed under the nickname 'Kapetan Doukas'. He came occasionaly in Macedoniantruth camouflaged under various nicknames, while his recent posts are signed under 'Agamoi Thytai'.

Epirot, Why dont you put your money where you mouth is and head on over there. You seem like a bright chap, you shouldnt have any problem posting your sources. Give it a go. BTW - I know you from Maknews as well. My nick was Menelaos.

It seems in both cases you picked Greek nicks ( Arvanite, Epirote ). Where exactly are you from Albania ? Are you a disenfranchised Cham ?

[Voltron]

Edit: Btw Voltron, why you are using the fake coat of arms of Gagauz Turks as your profile picture, altered and Grecized one by your idiotic so-called patriots?? You first said that your parents was from Istanbul, then you said that you have Vlach cousins in Aegean Macedonia, now you are using the altered Gagauz coat of arms in your profile!

Who are you and what you are trying to do??? Are you hellenized Gagauz??? so thats how you were able to write some Turkish sentences with your other account named "Ottoman??? Are you one of the "fervent" but non-Greek patriots you`ve talking about???

I got that coat of arms from you if you remember correctly. I would of never guessed such a coat of arms existed if it wasnt for you.
As to who I am well its pretty complicated. Here in Greece and most of the planet there is a concept called a " Family ". A " Family " is usually defined in two ways " intermediate " and " extended ". An immediate family usually consists of your parents and siblings. An extended family usually consists of your parents siblings, their spouses and subsequently your cousins. If your confused in anyway, pls let me know so that I may be able to provide more info on how it works.

Word is out that your a fraud Onur. You have made fatal mistakes regarding your own ethnicity. Regarding Ottoman again, it was him that rescued you when you didnt even know the municipality in Istanbul named Kadikoy. Instead you said Fenerbahce after the football team. When I called you on it you froze and Ottoman came in and rescued you. Then you said Ottoman script was Persian when infact its Arabic. Any Turk would know this. Then SOM had asked you in another thread to translate something, Did you ever get around to it ? Or are you still trying to figure it out ? Lastly, your completely oblivious regarding your ethnos racially mixed background but make comments to Greeks about theirs (see above post of yours). Most Turks I know like Greeks and the ones that dont are completely indifferent. Your unusual hatred is quite odd and all the other reasons I cited above makes it more apparant that your an imposter. The posters that know me from Maknews know better than that. Now that I dropped my mask, why dont you drop yours ? You a Pomak or something from Bulgaria ?

[Onur]

I got that coat of arms from you if you remember correctly. I would of never guessed such a coat of arms existed if it wasnt for you.

Ok, but why you are using this as your profile picture?

Word is out that your a fraud Onur.

You are just ranting here Voltron, and i don't need to prove anything to you cuz i have nothing to hide. I am not using a proxy server to hide my ip address. I am using my own real picture in my profile in the forum. I also have few members of this forum in my facebook friend list, like Julie and John.

Besides that, i don't hate Greeks. Yes, i am criticizing your government`s policies, your church and your fascist kinsmen but that doesn't mean that i hate Greeks. I rightfully criticize them because Turkish people doesn't walk around in Ankara, chanting like "500 year old Ottoman territory, Morea will be Turkish again" or our army doesn't say something like "We gonna butcher Greeks". It is the Greeks who does such things, not us. On the other hand, our clergy doesn't talk about Greeks, already they cant even dare to speak one word about politics, otherwise they get fired for involving to the stuff doesn't concern them. You know, our clergy are just regular officers, they don't have any "divinity" unlike your fascist priests.

This is one of your major problems. You Greeks cannot put a distance to anyone or anything bad in your society. Your priests sermons hate and racism, you guys say "amen". Your army talks about butchering people in your streets, you clap and cheer. You never think like "wait a min., something wrong here". You are so insecure but at the same time, obsessed with yourself, so you cannot even realize the faults in front of you. Thats why whenever a Turk, Albanian or Macedonian criticize something or some group in Greece, you automatically assume that "this guy is anti-Greek". Nevertheless, i understand you guys, because maybe i would have been like yourself if i get raised in childhood with scaremongering of so-called "imminent Turkish invasion" as confessed by Papandreu few months ago, all forms of Turkish bugaboo, possible breakup of Greece in Aegean Macedonia, dangers of Macedonian presence in there, dangers of Turkish presence in Thrace etc.


You are so insecure but at the same time, obsessed with yourself, so you cannot even realize the faults in front of you.
Repeating this cuz i believe this is also one of the reason of your current economical situation.

[fatso]

Onur said :

Besides that, i don't hate Greeks. Yes, i am criticizing your government`s policies, your church and your fascist kinsmen but that doesn't mean that i hate Greeks.

You are truly pathetc. How many times have you started a sentence by saying "what I really hate about these people"

You keep entertaining me. Still shying away from those questions I posed you.

[makedonche]

Onur said :

Besides that, i don't hate Greeks. Yes, i am criticizing your government`s policies, your church and your fascist kinsmen but that doesn't mean that i hate Greeks.

You are truly pathetc. How many times have you started a sentence by saying "what I really hate about these people"

You keep entertaining me. Still shying away from those questions I posed you.

Fatso
Pardon my interjection here but saying "what I hate about...." doesn't mean hating the person, it means hating the behaviour/actions.

[fatso]

Fatso
Pardon my interjection here but saying "what I hate about...." doesn't mean hating the person, it means hating the behaviour/actions.

Apologies...what he has actually said is "what I hate most about these people most".

[cultea]

Your priests sermons hate and racism, you guys say "amen". Your army talks about butchering people in your streets, you clap and cheer.

That story about Metropolitan of Thessalonice Anthimos did not play in the news in Greece and I'm not aware of any political reactions yet. He could be sued, though I don't believe there could be such a radio station and the "Investor's World" is certainly NOT a prestigious newspaper.
The officer who organized that... suicidal act (in the March 25th parade) was of course fired. That was not the Greek Army, but part of the Navy Police Guard.
Most Greeks are not fascists, but some sort of anti-fascist socialists.

[fatso]

That story about Metropolitan of Thessalonice Anthimos did not play in the news in Greece and I'm not aware of any political reactions yet. He could be sued, though I don't believe there could be such a radio station and the "Investor's World" is certainly NOT a prestigious newspaper.
The officer who organized that... suicidal act (in the March 25th parade) was of course fired. That was not the Greek Army, but part of the Navy Police Guard.
Most Greeks are not fascists, but some sort of anti-fascist socialists.

In Athens, I would put the figure at 90%.

[Onur]

That story about Metropolitan of Thessalonice Anthimos did not play in the news in Greece and I'm not aware of any political reactions yet.

Thats exactly what i am talking about!!!

This confirms that you guys just say "amen" to them. This is no surprise to me cuz according to the polls, Greek society trusts and praises Greek church more than any other organization in Greece. Your fascist priests sermons hate on live national tv by advising people to get on buses, destroy some stuff and commit crime but nothing happens.

Most probably, your metropolitan is currently busy with trying to "save the Greek pride", setting up the money to rent buses, gathering few idiots to crush the place and beat some people up. Then i would post this news article next week in "Greek racism" thread and then Fatso gonna respond to the thread like "OMG OMG LIAR, ANSWER FOR PONTUS GENOCIDE FIRST!!!mkelumiebsbszbzs"""!!!!