Macedonians, Greeks and the New Testament

[johnMKD]

That is true, but it stands rather for pagans oposed to Hebrew, read this:

Exactly, you're right.

Just to say here also that the Greek Bible that I have at home explains that when the term "Greeks" is used juxtaposed to "Hebrews" it means: non-believers. When it is used juxtaposed to "barbarians" it means: educated.

[Soldier of Macedon]

.........when the term "Greeks" is used juxtaposed to "Hebrews" it means: non-believers. When it is used juxtaposed to "barbarians" it means: educated.

That's correct John, the so-called Greeks in the Macedonian cities Berea and Salonika are not 'ethnic' Greeks, but non-Jews. Macedonia and the Macedonians are a separate entity and element from Greece, according to the New Testament.

Acts Chapter 20
When the uproar had ended, Paul sent for the disciples and, after encouraging them, said good-by and set out for Macedonia. He travelled through that area, speaking many words of encouragement to the people, and finally arrived in Greece, where he stayed three months. Because the Jews made a plot against him just as he was about to sail for Syria, he decided to go back through Macedonia.

[Bill77]

When it is used juxtaposed to "barbarians" it means: educated.

i have a diferent opinion John. I understood "Barbarian" to mean "unintelligible"

Quote: WIKIPEDIA: "The term originates in the ancient Greek civilization, meaning "anyone who is not Greek". Comparable notions are found in non-European civilizations. Greek word βάρβαρος (bárbaros). The word is onomatopoeic, the bar-bar representing the impression of random hubbub produced by hearing a spoken language that one cannot understand, similar to blah blah, babble

Although it must be said i don't entirely rely on wiki.



Its possible later on the meaning "uneducated" could have been a rhetorical slant came from "Unintelligible" meaning if you do not speak Greek, you have not been educated. Later on and still to this day "Barbarian" has a differant meaning again "Describing someone as savage"

The Hellenes used the term as they encountered scores of different foreign cultures, including the Egyptians, Persians, Celts, Germans, Phoenicians, Etruscans, Macedonians, and Carthaginians". so to call them "Barbarians" = "uneducated Greeks" would be wrong where as calling them "Barbarians" = "Unintelligible" after encountering them would make more sence.


Barbarian is used in its Hellenic sense by St. Paul in the New Testament (Romans 1:14)

English Standard Version (©2001)
I am under obligation both to Greeks and to barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish.

New International Version (©1984)
I am obligated both to Greeks and non-Greeks, both to the wise and the foolish..

to describe non-Greeks, and to describe one who merely speaks a different language (1 Corinthians 14:11).

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
If then I do not know the meaning of the language, I will be to the one who speaks a barbarian, and the one who speaks will be a barbarian to me.

New International Version (©1984)
If then I do not grasp the meaning of what someone is saying, I am a foreigner to the speaker, and he is a foreigner to me. ..

The word is not used in these scriptures in the modern sense of "savage" and very doughtful St Paul would have spoken in a rhetorical manner.

[lavce pelagonski]

bravo this is great stuff

[Bratot]

Not only we have a "Slav" in the 1 Century in Macedonia(Mygdonia) but we have Alexander in Christian motives in Russia in 12th century

Резной убор имел преимущественно декоративное значение. Он гармонично сочетается с архитектурными формами, не отягощая и не затемняя их. В восточной закомаре северного фасада помещен скульптурный портрет строителя собора - князя Всеволода с сыновьями. В восточной закомаре южного фасада центральное место занимает рельеф, изображающий легенду о вознесении Александра Македонского, - сюжет, связанный с обожествлением царской власти.

http://www.ruschudo.ru/miracles/896/

In St. Dimitrija temple dedicated velikomachenikot Dmitrie, who according to Christian tradition appears as a heavenly patron of all warriors, fighting for good and righteousness.
This is a fragment of the southern facade. Whitestone carving where the central relief takes place of the legendary Alexander of Macedon, king-warrior.
Built in 1194.








Вознесение Александра Македонского на небо. Рельеф Дмитриевского собора во Владимире

http://a-vers.narod.ru/lutyzver.htm

[thessalo-niki]

Saint Irene (Great Martyr)

You seem to be confusing Macedonia with Magedon and 2nd with 4th century.

http://www.google.gr/search?q=saint+irene+magedon&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:el:official&client=firefox-a

Not, that it really matters. Wikipedia is also confused, at least today (19-07-2010) and I have no intention to work on it.
Post#11 is a whole of a mess, because the Russian link (if you translate it) tells an irrelevant martyrs story.
____________________________________________
Odysseas Elytis - Our name is our soul

[Bratot]

You seem to be confusing Macedonia with Magedon and 2nd with 4th century.

http://www.google.gr/search?q=saint+irene+magedon&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:el:official&client=firefox-a

Not, that it really matters. Wikipedia is also confused, at least today (19-07-2010) and I have no intention to work on it.
Post#11 is a whole of a mess, because the Russian link (if you translate it) tells an irrelevant martyrs story.
____________________________________________
Odysseas Elytis - Our name is our soul

It's definatelly not us to confuse locations since it's all avaiable online:

She lived in the Balkans in apostolic times, in the town of Magedon where her father Licinius was governor of a small region. Some think that she was a Slav. She was born a pagan of pagan parents.

http://www.agiaeirini.com/

Mygdonia (Greek: "Μυγδονία") was an ancient territory, part of Ancient Thrace, later conquered by Macedon, which comprised the plains around Therma (Thessalonica) together with the valleys of Klisali and Besikia, including the area of the Axios river mouth and extending as far east as Lake Bolbe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mygdonia

Святая великомученица Ирина пострадала за Христа в конце I или в начале II века. Она была дочерью правителя фракийского города Мигдонии язычника Ликиния и его супруги, также носившей имя Ликиния.

Скончалась святая мученица Ирина мирно в городе Ефесе, куда была перенесена на облаке из своего родного города Мигдонии.

http://hramsuoyarvi.ru/calendar/2010-5-18.html

It's more probable to be the case of Mygdonia = Мигдонии; Thrace = Фракия

http://bg.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9C%...B4%D0%B5%D0%BC)

http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A4%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BA%D0%B8%D1%8F

Where was that Magedon in Persia?

Мигдония местность в Месопотамии
(Mygdonia) — древняя местность в восточной Месопотамии, за рекой Хабор, прозванная греками за чрезвычайное плодородие Анфемузией, с городами Низибис, Антиохия, Дарас, Ценье, Сингара и др. Название М., по словам Страбона, возникло в эпоху македонского владычества.
"Энциклопедический словарь" Ф.А. Брокгауза и И.А. Ефрона

http://dic.academic.ru/dic.nsf/brokgauz_efron/67272/%D0%9C%D0%B8%D0%B3%D0%B4%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%8F

Mygdon place in Mesopotamia
(Mygdonia) - an ancient area in the east of Mesopotamia, across the river Habor, known by the Greeks for the extraordinary fertility Anfemuziey, with cities Nizibis, Antioch, Daras, Tsene, Singara, etc. The name M., according to Strabo, emerged in an era of Macedonian rule.


Mygdonia was secured as an integral part of the Macedonian Kingdom after Philip II's enthronement. Alexander the Great, in order to honour his Mygdonian army troop, gave the name of Mygdonia to a place in Mesopotamia (Pliny VI, 16).

http://ancient-medieval-macedonian-history.blogspot.com/2007/12/eastern-macedonia-mygdonia.html

[Daniel the Great]

II CORINTHIANS 9:1-4

Now concerning the ministering
to the saints, it is superfluous
for me to write to you;
2 for I know your willingness,
about which i boast of you to the
Macedonians, that Achaia was ready
a year ago; and your zeal has stirred
up the majority.
3 Yet I have sent the brethren, lest
our boasting of you should be in
vain in this respect, that, as I said,
you may be ready;
4 Lest if some Macedonians come
with me and find you unprepared,
we (not to mention you!) should
be ashamed of this confident boasting.

Macedonia and Macedonians are mentioned many times in the Bible, and i assume they are mentioned in an ethnic sense.

[George S.]

macedonia is mentioned many times in the bible & it does make a clear distinction from greece.they are two different countries.

[DraganOfStip]

However,I came across a Greek claim that writings in the Acts and saint Paul's travels around this area weren't presented completely but certain parts showing the "Greekness" of the Macedonians in the Bible were deliberately left out by the "Fyromians".Any find on this?

[George S.]

i know for a fact that st paul went to athens & greeks they rejected him because they stuck to their myths & gods.But paul travelled to macedonia & he was accepted by the macedonians.There is a distinct difference.It is also said that Mary the mother of jesus travelled to macedonia.If she went to greece it would say so.Also in the bible Lydia it is said was a macedonian, Also luke the apostle was a macedonian there is a distinction.

[Risto the Great]

However,I came across a Greek claim that writings in the Acts and saint Paul's travels around this area weren't presented completely but certain parts showing the "Greekness" of the Macedonians in the Bible were deliberately left out by the "Fyromians".Any find on this?

That is actually true.
Tito told me this after he let me fly on his unicorn.

[Soldier of Macedon]

However,I came across a Greek claim that writings in the Acts and saint Paul's travels around this area weren't presented completely but certain parts showing the "Greekness" of the Macedonians in the Bible were deliberately left out by the "Fyromians".Any find on this?

Does this Greek claim specify which particular citations of the Bible have been omitted, that would show the apparent "Greekness" of the Macedonians? Is it implying that Macedonians changed the Bible text from an earlier period, which has subsequently resulted in 'manipulated' translations by all other Christians? Or, if the Macedonians changed just their own Bible, how does it differ from any other Bible in this world? If you haven't already asked these questions (which appears to be the case, otherwise you wouldn't have posted this so-called 'claim'), then I suggest you start being a little more critical when you come across such trash on the internet. Furthermore, avoid using their racist terminology if it isn't required to make a specific point.

[DraganOfStip]

Here are some of the quotes they presented:
""The brothers immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Beroea. When they arrived, they went into the Jewish synagogue. Now these were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of the mind, examining the Scriptures daily, whether these things were so. Many of them therefore believed; also of the Greek women of honorable estate, and not a few men."Since Beroea (Veria) is a city in Aegean Macedonia,and by mentioning Greek women they consider it a distortion of true quote.Another one:"Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia,they came to Thessalonica,where there was a synagogue of the Jews.Paul,as was his custom,went to them,and for 3 Sabbath days reasoned with them from the Scriptures,explaining and demonstrating that the Christ had to suffer,and to rise again from the dead,and saying "This Jesus,whom I proclaim to you,is the Christ".Some of them were persuaded,and joined Paul and Silas,of the devout Greeks a great multitude,and not a few of the chief women."Once again they connect Solun with Greeks.""The Apostles Paul and Silas met Greek men and women in Thessaloniki and Beroea"
(Act Apost. XVII 4, 12).I don't own a Bible,so I can't verify if this is a case of distorting quotes by them,or just Greek propaganda embedded in their version of the Bible,but any info would be useful.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Since Beroea (Veria) is a city in Aegean Macedonia,and by mentioning Greek women they consider it a distortion of true quote.

Check the quotes on the first page of this thread, they are genuine, but what you're saying doesn't make sense. I have never seen anybody make such a claim. Where are you getting your information from?

Once again they connect Solun with Greeks.

Where it concerns the people of Macedonia, Rome, etc, the term 'Greek' relates to a perceived 'higher' culture as opposed to 'barbarians', or people who are not 'Christian' or 'Jewish'. The reference to 'Greeks' in Solun is no different to that in Rome, see below:

I am debtor to both Greeks and barbarians, both to wise and unwise. So as much as in me, I am ready to preach the gospel to you who are in Rome also. For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. (Romans, 1)

It is all explained on the first page of this thread. You should take the time to read it.

I don't own a Bible,so I can't verify if this is a case of distorting quotes by them,or just Greek propaganda embedded in their version of the Bible,but any info would be useful.

If you've been resourceful enough to come across this sort of propaganda then I find it a bit puzzling that you haven't been able to locate a Bible online for the sake of verifying these quotes. There are thousands of translations available on the internet, and you only have to go to Google and type in the word 'Bible' to find them.