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Mastika 05-04-2010 08:52 AM

[QUOTE=Soldier of Macedon;51019]Macedonia does more than enough to ensure that the Vlach minority has adequate resources to maintain their culture, language, traditions, etc. Anything more and it will look like they are being shown favour over the other minorities. What exactly is Macedonia not doing enough of, that is done for other minorities? (Please exclude the extra privileged ethnic Albanian minority that secured 'more rights' after terrorists among their population made war upon Macedonia and were rewarded for their actions by the West).

Macedonia can't be blamed if the Vlach's themselves don't utilise that which is provided to them (if that is actually the case). Are you a Vlach, Mastika?[/QUOTE]

It is not just about them not utilising their minority rights (I did however remember reading that the Macedonian Orthodox Church does not permit services in Aromanian, can anybody confirm or deny this?). There are many more factors here at play. Intermarriage has greatly resulted in the loss of culture. So too has the desertion of basically all of the Aromanian villages in the Republic of Macedonia. They are all shadows of their former self, so too is the Vlasko malo in Bitola.

Here is a basic list showing the population of the Vlach villages/settlements in 1900 and in 2002.

Magarevo; [B]1900[/B]- 2,400 Aromanians, [B]2002[/B]- 87: 62 Macedonians*, 24 Vlachs
Nize Pole;[B] 1900 [/B]- 1,590 Aromanians, 250 Albanians, 190 Macedonians, [B]2002[/B]- 186: 105 Vlachs, 30 Albanians, 4 Turks, 47 Macedonians
Tnovo; [B]1900[/B]- 2,400 Aromanians, 50 Albanians, [B]2002[/B]- 278: 146 Macedonians*, 82 Albanians, 48 Vlachs
Gopes; [B]1900[/B]- 2,460 Aromanians, [B]2002[/B]- uninhabited
Magarevo; [B]1900[/B] - 2,300 Aromanians, [B]2002[/B]- 98: 87 Vlachs, 10 Macedonians*
Gorna Belica; [B]1900[/B] - 850 Aromanians, 150 Albanians, [B]2002[/B] - Uninhabited
Dolna Belica; [B]1900[/B] - 650 Aromanians, 50 Albanians, [B]2002[/B] 1026: 17 Macedonians*, 945 Albanians, 24 Vlachs, 38 Others
Krusevo; [B]1900[/B]- 4,950 Macedonians, 4,000 Aromanians, 400 Albanians, [B]2002[/B]- 5330: 4,273 Macedonians, 1,020 Vlachs, 26 Serbs, 11 Others.
Bitola; [B]1900[/B]- est. 7,000 Aromanians, [B]2002[/B]- 997 Vlachs.

*(includes many Aromanians) [the numbers

So basically in 1900 the main settlements had approx. 23,650 Vlachs now only officially 2,305 Aromanians exist in these places! This doesnt include the number of Aromanians throughout other cities in the RoM (the same source gives a total of 38,882 for all regions throughout RoM in 1900).

I am aware that migration to cities and abroad have taken its toll, and in the case of Gopes, devestation during wartime, but across the whole country "officially" there are only 9595 Vlasi of whom only 6884 have Aromanian as their mother language. I find this extremely hard to believe.

I think that it is shame for any culture or language to be lost even if these people want to be more Macedonian. One should always be proud of their own cultural heritage first and then that of their country. SOM, to answer your question no I am not Aromanian however I have number of family members who have married into Aromanian families. Bun noate :sleep: (I'm sure you can guess what that means Risto, it doesnt have to be a Vlach forum :innocent:).

Prolet 05-04-2010 09:00 AM

Mastika, Did you know that 26th of May is the national day for the Vlasi? Two days after Sveti Kiril I Metodija. If you are a declared Vlav, you get the day off.

indigen 05-06-2010 04:58 AM

Ilinden Uprising Reports by Sydney Morning Herald, 1903
 
THE REBELLION IN MACEDONIA – Excerpts from telegrams:

INSURGENT POSITION STORMED, FLIGHT BEFORE ARTILLERY FIRE
LONDON, Aug. 31.
Advices which have been received at Salonika state that Servet Pasha, with six battalions, stormed a position held by 3000 Macedonians at Smilevo. 1000 Macedonians were killed, and the remaineder fled before the artillery fire of the Turks.

--------------------

SMH - August 14, 1903:
TURKISH TROOPS SURROUNDED
London, August 12

A body of insurgents surrounds 200 turkish troops at Dirgje.

Fourty six Macedonians have been killed in fighting at Okrida (Ohrid).

There have been sanguinary encounters between Kutzo-Wallach (Vlach) and Greek bands.

------------------

The Sydney Morning Herald, Friday, August 21, 1903:
THE KRUSHEVO FIGHTING – HEAVY LOSSES LONDON, Aug. 20.
In the fighting at Krushevo the revolutionists lost 60 killed and 12 wounded. They then left the vicinity. The casualties of the Turkish troops numbered 250.


GREEK SYMPATHY FOR TURKEY
London, Aug. 20.

The GREEK GOVERNMENT, the GREEK METROPOLITAN and the PEOPLE of GREECE ARE IN ACTIVE SYMPATHY WITH the TURKS.

-----------------

The Sydney Morning Herald, Tuesday, September 1, 1903:

INSURGENT POSITION STORMED, FLIGHT BEFORE ARTILLERY FIRE
LONDON, Aug. 31.
Advices which have been received at Salonika state that Servet Pasha, with six battalions, stormed a position held by 3000 Macedonians at Smilevo. 1000 Macedonians were killed, and the remaineder fled before the artillery fire of the Turks.


SMH - September1, 1903:
HOLY WAR URGED
LONDON, Aug. 31.

Fanatics in the Tetovo and Kostovo districts, near Uskub, urge Moslems to prepare for a holy war against Christians.

[The Koran, the sacred book of the Moslems, enjoins the making of war on infidels. To spur the believers on it is ordained that he who is slain while fighting in defence of and for the propagation of Islam is a martyr, while a deserter from the holy war (jehad) is held up as an object of execration, and has forfeited his life in this world as well as in the world to come.]

INSURGENT SUCCESS
LONDON August 31
Four hundred MACEDONIANS surprised the village of Setina and killed 189 (turkish) soldiers.

For fair use only.

Risto the Great 05-07-2010 05:39 PM

Isn't it lovely that Greece can shed a tear for Turkey only when it comes to killing Macedonians. A consistent theme from Greece.

Soldier of Macedon 05-07-2010 05:48 PM

[QUOTE][B]The GREEK GOVERNMENT, the GREEK METROPOLITAN and the PEOPLE of GREECE ARE IN ACTIVE SYMPATHY WITH the TURKS.[/B][/QUOTE]

The above says it all.

indigen 10-11-2010 01:31 AM

SMH, AUGUST 15, 1903

THE REBELLION IN MACEDONIA.
-----
EFFECTS OF BRITISH POLICY.
--
A GOOD IMPRESSION.
--
LONDON, Aug. 14.
The speech in the House of Commons by
Mr. A. J. Balfour, the Prime Minister,
outlining the policy which Great Britain
desired to have carried out in Macedonia,
has created a good impression at
Constantinople and other capitals of the
continent.
-----

SUCCES NOT ANTICIPATED
--
LONDON, Aug. 14.
Bulgaria is watching the insurrection in
Macedonia with interest, but she has no
expectation of its success.
-----

A REASSURIN STATEMENT.
--
PUNISHMENT OF MILITARY EXCESSES.
--
LONDON, Aug. 14.
The Marquis of Lansdowne, the Secretary of
State for Foreign Affairs, speaking in the
House of Lords last night in reply to a
question from Earl Spencer, made a reassuring
statement based on despatches from Sir N.
O'Connor, the British Ambassador at
Constantinople. These despatches showed that
it was the determination of the Porte to
repress and punish military excesses.
------

ARRESTS IN BULGARIA
--
LONDON, Aug. 14.
The Bulgarian police have arrested Colonel
Zontcheff and M. Jankoff, two of the leaders
of the.........agitation in Macedonia, near
the frontier, to prevent them joining the
revolutionists.
---------


SMH, AUGUST 17, 1903

THE REBELLION IN MACEDONIA.
------
THE BLACK SEA FLEET.
--
MOVING TOWARDS TURKISH WATERS.
--

LONDON, Aug. 16.
A squadron of the Russian Black Sea fleet
has sailed for Turkish waters.
------

MEMORIAL FROM BULGARIA.
--
TURKEY'S MISDEEDS.
--
HOPLESSNESS OF GOOD REULTS
--
LONDON, Aug. 15.
Bulgaria is presenting to the Powers a
memorial containing an enumeration of the
misdeeds committed by Moslems on the
Christians of the Turkish vilayets bordering
Bulgaria and the hopelessness of expecting any
good from the so-called reforms initiated by
Turkey.
------

THE MASSACRES.
--
MUTUAL RECRIMINATIONS.
--
LONDON, Aug. 15.
[B]Turks and Macedonians mutually accuse each
other of committing massacres of their
opponents.[/B]

[COLOR="Red"][B]The instances given include massacres of
Christians at Kitchevo and of Moslems at
Krushevo. Turkish troops, after the massacre,
succeeded in reoccupying the later place.[/B][/COLOR]

[B]Advices from Belgrade, Servia, state that Turks
have been guilty of horrible atrocities in
villages near Monastir. The Turks have destroyed
14 villages in the Uskub and Veles districts.[/B]

[Veles(Koprulu) is situated on the Vardar, 27
miles south-east by east of Uskub. At Krushevo,
which is 23 miles north by west of Monastir,
bands destroyed the Kopak (palace) with
dynamite and killed 50 Turks. After the occupation
of Kitchevo by the Turks they were unsuccessfully
attacked by insurgents.]
------

POWER'S DEMANDS.
--
PROTECTION FOR CONSULS.
--
[B][COLOR="Red"]LONDON, Aug. 15.
The Ambassadors at Constantinople have demanded of
the Porte measures for the protection of consuls
and foreign subjects in the Monastir district owing
to Moslem population demanding arms, ostensibly for
self-defence.[/COLOR][/B]

[B][The Turkish officials at Uskub lately distributed
5000 rifles among the Mohammedan population, which
then threatened the Christians with massacres. No
doubt the Turks have acted similarly in the Monastir
district.][/B]
--------

AMMUNITION FOR MACEDONIA.
--
DISGUISED AS HARDWARE.
--
LONDON, Aug. 15.
The Customs officials at Belgrade, Servia, have
confiscated a quantity of ammunition which was
packed in cases and disguised by being labelled
hardware and nails.

The ammunition was destined for Macedonia.
--------

TURKISH VILLAGERS MASSACRED.
--
ISURRECTION SPREADING.
--
WOMEN FIGHTING.
--
LONDON, Aug. 14.
Turkish advices state that all the inhabitants
except 20 of the Turkish village of Konali, near
Monastir, have been massacred.

[B][COLOR="Red"]Extraordinary reports have been received from
Salonika stating that the insurrection is spreading
eastwards, that women are participating in the
fighting, and that the Austrian Consul there has
been threatened.[/COLOR][/B]

The English newspapers demand the publication of
the reports of the British Consuls in the
disaffected districts.
-----------

RUSSAIN CONSUL'S MURDERER.
--
THE GUILTY EXECUTED.
--
LONDON, Aug. 15.
The gendarme Halim, the murderer of M. Rostowsky,
the Russian Consul at Monastir, has been sentenced to
death and hanged, together with an accomplice who did
not interfere to prevent the crime.

Another gendarme in connection with the same
offence received a sentence of 15 years penal
servitude.
--------

DESTRUCTION OF A BRIDGE.
--
LONDON, Aug. 15.
A bridge on the Monastir railway line has been
destroyed by dynamite.
---------

---------

THE SITUATION DESPERATE.
--
REBELS PLUNDERING EVERYWHERE.
--
LONDON, Aug. 16.
Reports from Viena are to the effect that the situation
in Macedonia is desperate. The Porte is incapable of
restoring order. Strong bands of rebels are
plundering villages and firing houses everywhere.
----------------

For fair use only.

indigen 10-11-2010 02:36 AM

[IMG]http://i995.photobucket.com/albums/af80/inidgen2010/history/1903/smh_aug_12_1903_telegrams.jpg[/IMG]
[URL="http://i995.photobucket.com/albums/af80/inidgen2010/history/1903/smh_aug_12_1903_telegrams.jpg"][COLOR="Navy"]smh_aug_12_1903_telegrams.jpg[/COLOR][/URL]

NB: Photobucket.com unfortunately automatically rezied the original file from approx 200kb down to approx 60kb and may not be very readable.

Onur 10-11-2010 03:36 AM

[QUOTE=Risto the Great;51966]Isn't it lovely that Greece can shed a tear for Turkey only when it comes to killing Macedonians. A consistent theme from Greece.[/QUOTE]


Nah, it just shows how big lie is the so-called religious brotherhood. It was always a myth and easily forgotten when it comes to political benefit and such.

We observed the same thing for muslims when Arabs did sellout us for the benefit of British. Russians did the same thing too, when their so-called Orthodox brothers, Greeks invaded Anatolia, Russians said "People of Russia are in active sympathy with the Turks".


Btw, it`s sad to read all these quotes. It doesn't look like a war but looks like a civil war instead cuz ordinary people killing each other too and it`s portrayed as christians vs muslims!, sigh...

indigen 10-11-2010 05:44 AM

[IMG]http://i995.photobucket.com/albums/af80/inidgen2010/history/map1.jpg[/IMG]
[URL="http://i995.photobucket.com/albums/af80/inidgen2010/history/map1.jpg"][COLOR="Navy"]Map of Ethno-Historical Macedonia.[/COLOR][/URL]

[URL="http://i995.photobucket.com/albums/af80/inidgen2010/history/1903/smh_aug_14_1903_balkan_states_map.jpg"][COLOR="Navy"]smh_aug_14_1903_balkan_states_map.jpg[/COLOR][/URL]

[URL="http://i995.photobucket.com/albums/af80/inidgen2010/history/1903/smh_aug_18_1903_telegrams.jpg"][COLOR="Navy"]smh_aug_18_1903_telegrams.jpg[/COLOR][/URL]
[URL="http://i995.photobucket.com/albums/af80/inidgen2010/history/1903/smh_aug_18_1903_telegrams_b.jpg"][COLOR="Navy"]smh_aug_18_1903_telegrams_b.jpg[/COLOR][/URL]

[URL="http://i995.photobucket.com/albums/af80/inidgen2010/history/1903/smh_aug_19_1903_telegrams.jpg"][COLOR="Navy"]smh_aug_19_1903_telegrams.jpg[/COLOR][/URL]
[URL="http://i995.photobucket.com/albums/af80/inidgen2010/history/1903/smh_aug_19_1903_telegrams_b.jpg"][COLOR="Navy"]smh_aug_19_1903_telegrams_b.jpg[/COLOR][/URL]

[URL="http://i995.photobucket.com/albums/af80/inidgen2010/history/1903/smh_aug_20_1903_telegrams.jpg"][COLOR="Navy"]smh_aug_20_1903_telegrams.jpg[/COLOR][/URL]

[URL="http://i995.photobucket.com/albums/af80/inidgen2010/history/1903/smh_aug_21_1903_part_b.jpg"][COLOR="Navy"]smh_aug_21_1903_part_b.jpg[/COLOR][/URL]
[URL="http://i995.photobucket.com/albums/af80/inidgen2010/history/1903/smh_aug_21_1903_part_c.jpg"][COLOR="Navy"]smh_aug_21_1903_part_c.jpg[/COLOR][/URL]

[URL="http://i995.photobucket.com/albums/af80/inidgen2010/history/1903/smh_aug_22_1903_telegrams.jpg"][COLOR="Navy"]smh_aug_22_1903_telegrams.jpg[/COLOR][/URL]

[URL="http://i995.photobucket.com/albums/af80/inidgen2010/history/1903/smh_aug_27_1903.jpg"][COLOR="Navy"]Steam ship Macedonia launched [/COLOR][/URL](smh_aug_27_1903.jpg).

[URL="http://i995.photobucket.com/albums/af80/inidgen2010/history/1903/smh_sept_01_1903_telegrams_b.jpg"][COLOR="Navy"]smh_sept_01_1903_telegrams_b.jpg[/COLOR][/URL]

indigen 10-16-2010 03:29 AM

[B]SMH,8 Aug 1903 - Telegrams.[/B]

[B]The Balkans
-------------

[SIZE="4"]Revolution in Macedonia
---
Repressive Measures
---
London, Aug. 6.[/B]
[COLOR="Red"]The Council of Turkish Ministers at Constantinople
has decided to adopt measures of extreme severity
to suppress the revolution at Monastir [Bitola], and
also to employ Albanian troops, which will inevitably
lead to massacres.[/COLOR]
--------------
[/SIZE]

[B]Precautions in Bulgaria.
----
London, Aug. 7.[/B]
The Bulgarian Government is trying to prevent ammunition
passing the frontier into Macedonia.

It is feared in Vienna that the Balkan trouble is entering
into a critical phase.
----------
[SIZE="4"]
[B]ARMENIA
----
A Serious Allegation
----
London, Aug. 6.[/B]
[COLOR="Red"]The Russian Ambassador to Turkey, M. Zinovieff, has made
strong representation to the Porte to the effect that the
Kurds are adopting a menacing attitude, and that the
authorities are secretly arming the Kurds while endeavouring
to prove that the Armenians have a revolutionary intention.[/COLOR]
-------------[/SIZE]

[B]SMH, Monday, August 10, 1903[/B]

[B]The Balkans
---------

A Premature Outbreak
---
London, Aug. 7.[/B]
Consular despatches from Monastir [Bitola] state that the
insurrection broke out a fortnight earlier than was originally
intended, matters having been precipitated by chiefs of the
bands concerned in it becoming disconcerted at the preventative
measures adopted by the authorities....The Porte, owing to the
impoverishment of the Treasury, is unable to accede to the
demands of the railway companies for an increase to 20,000
of the guards detailed for the protection of the railways.
--------------

[B]RESERVES INSUBORDINATE
------
London, Aug. 8.[/B]
Turkish Redifs (Army Reserves) in Macedonia are discontented,
and are insubordinate. Many of them have deserted, and have
sold their arms to the insurgents.
---------------


[B]THE BALKANS' INSURRECTION
---------

Employment of Bashi Bazouks
-----
London, Aug. 9.[/B]
The Bulgarian Government has asked the Powers to influence
the Porte not to employ the Bashi-Bouzouks in suppressing
the rebellion in the vilayet of Monastir [Bitola].
---------

[B]SMH, Aug 11, 1903.

The Balkans Insurrection.
-----------

The Powers Pressure.
---
Decisive Actions Urged.
---
London, Aug. 10.[/B]
The "Times" says that since the reform settlement of
Macedonia pressed upon Turkey by Austria and Russia
has failed, it is urgently necessary that those two
Powers should consider whether they ought to longer
refrain from taking more decisive steps.
-----------
[SIZE="4"]
[B]OUTBREAK SPREADING
---
London, Aug. 10.[/B]
The insurrection in the Balkans is spreading in the
direction of Salonika and Uskub [Skopje].
--------------

[B]TROOPS FOR MANASTIR [BITOLA]
---
London, Aug. 10.[/B]
[COLOR="Red"]Omar Pasha is leading 16 battalions from Presend
[Prizren, Kosovo] to Monastir [Bitola], and is
mobilising 24 fresh battalions of reserves in the
Salonika district.[/COLOR]
----------

[B]TWENTY THOUSAND INSURGENTS.
----
WELL-ARMED, MONEY PLENTIFUL.
----
London, Aug. 9.[/B]
[COLOR="Red"]Ten thousand insurgents, in four camps, are operating
in the neighbourhood of Monastir [Bitola], and 10,000
around Kastoria [Kostur], which is situated 36 miles
to the south of Monastir [Bitola].[/COLOR] The insurgents are
reported to be well armed and to have plenty of money.

Anticipating the arranged rising by three weeks, the
insurgents caught the Turks napping.
-----------

RUSSIAN CONSUL SHOT.
---
London, Aug. 9.
A Turkish gendarme yesterday shot M. Rostovsky, the
Russian Consul at Monastir [Bitola], in an altercation
arising out of an omission to salute him.


[/SIZE]


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