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-   -   Interview with Nikola Karev 1903 I am Macedonian (http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=5666)

Lorenzo 05-18-2011 12:42 PM

Interview with Nikola Karev 1903 I am Macedonian
 
[QUOTE=Daskalot;79328][IMG]http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa260/Piperkata/sbq1i0.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa260/Piperkata/sbq2bs.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

еве го оргиналниот текст на грчки

[IMG]http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m568/LorenzoKurovski/ionosdragoumitatetradia.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m568/LorenzoKurovski/ionosdragoumitatetradia-1.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m568/LorenzoKurovski/ionosdragoumitatetradia-2.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m568/LorenzoKurovski/ionosdragoumitatetradia-3.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m568/LorenzoKurovski/ionosdragoumitatetradia-4.jpg[/IMG]

Daskalot 05-20-2011 03:11 AM

Thank you Lorenzo for posting the original source of the article.
Another piece of evidence has now been verified, awesome.
By the way, welcome to our forum and keep up the good work.
Could anyone of our Greek speaking members cross-check the article with the original?

Daskalot 06-28-2011 03:55 AM

I decided to move this post into a thread of its own. Great find, and thank you.

makedonin 06-28-2011 05:03 AM

Finally we have the original text, thanx for that Lorenzo.

The translation above is scanned from the immigrant paper "Macedonia".

Daskalot 06-28-2011 05:25 AM

Makedonin, do you know which year it was published and where?

makedonin 06-28-2011 05:35 AM

[quote=Daskalot;103473]Makedonin, do you know which date it was published and where?[/quote]

Sorry Daskale I can't serve with that, I don't have the paper anymore, maknews days were long time ago :)

I know that it was also reported in [quote]Утрински Весник, Сабота, 22.07.2000 Архивски Број 329[/quote]However they have [URL="http://star.utrinski.com.mk/?section=arc&pbroj=2208&pyear=2011&pmonth=6"]archive only back to 2002.[/URL]

So it has to be around that time too....
The first to find and publish the interview was г-ѓа Вамбаковска from the Historical institute in Macedonia.

Stojacanec 06-28-2011 05:37 AM

It seems the interviewer tried to impose being Greek on N Karev every time he distinguished himself from a Greek.

Daskalot 06-28-2011 05:39 AM

Thank you for the info Makedonin. Does anyone else know when and where it was published? To clarify I am referring to the English translation of the interview.

makedonin 06-28-2011 05:45 AM

[quote=Daskalot;103476]Thank you for the info Makedonin. Does anyone else know when and where it was published? To clarify I am referring to the English translation of the interview.[/quote]

Daskale, the possibility that someone else will know that is slim. The paper is long time dead, and the above English scan is made by me.

Daskalot 06-28-2011 05:47 AM

[QUOTE=makedonin;103477]Daskale, the possibility that someone else will know that is slim. The paper is long time dead, and the above English scan is made by me.[/QUOTE]

Ok good to know, do you still have the original Makedonin?

makedonin 06-28-2011 05:52 AM

[quote=Daskalot;103478]Ok good to know, do you still have the original Makedonin?[/quote]

Unfortunately the original is long gone too... најверојатно сам го изгубил при селење.

Daskalot 06-28-2011 05:57 AM

Ok, lets see what we can find out, remember time is on our side :)

makedonin 06-28-2011 06:04 AM

[quote=Daskalot;103480]Ok, lets see what we can find out, remember time is on our side :)[/quote]

Till date I haven't found any online sources for that immigrant Paper. It was distributed through a network here in Germany, but most probably printed elsewhere. I have lost contact to the people that were distributors due to shift of place of living.

But hey, time is on our side :) maybe some day...

Voltron 06-28-2011 03:17 PM

There is a wrong translation on the second page of the english version. 4th bottom paragraph from the right top. It says:

"[I]Whatever kind of watering, it refreshes us and has forced us to turn our branches to that side which, we admit we have nothing in common, and to run from you with which we do [B][COLOR="Red"]not[/COLOR][/B] share the same blood and history. This is in some way a protest against Greek [COLOR="Red"][B]interest[/B][/COLOR] in us.[/I]"

The word [COLOR="Red"]"not"[/COLOR] is wrong. Its not included in the original text. Also the last sentence should say "This is in some way a protest against Greek [B]indifference[/B] to us". Not[COLOR="red"] "interest"[/COLOR] in us.

The correct translation is below:

"[I]Whatever watering it may be, it refreshes us and made us turn our branches towards that place which I confess nothing unites us (Bulgarians) and to leave you whom [B]we have one blood and one history.[/B] This is some way a protest of against Greek [B]indifference[/B] to us.[/I]"

Now reading this interview I cant help but notice that Karev was looking for Greek support. His argument is that he was forced to side with the Bulgarians since Greek support was nonexistant.

Soldier of Macedon 06-29-2011 12:58 AM

[QUOTE="Voltron"]Now reading this interview I cant help but notice that Karev was looking for Greek support. His argument is that he was forced to side with the Bulgarians since Greek support was nonexistant.[/QUOTE]
If you read it a little more carefully you will also notice that he says [B][I]even if a Turk offers his hand to save us, we will grab it with gratitude[/I][/B]. The whole point was Macedonian independence - Greeks, Bulgars, Turks, etc were only a means to an end.

Stojacanec 06-29-2011 01:13 AM

[QUOTE=Voltron;103526]There is a wrong translation on the second page of the english version. 4th bottom paragraph from the right top. It says:

"[I]Whatever kind of watering, it refreshes us and has forced us to turn our branches to that side which, we admit we have nothing in common, and to run from you with which we do [B][COLOR="Red"]not[/COLOR][/B] share the same blood and history. This is in some way a protest against Greek [COLOR="Red"][B]interest[/B][/COLOR] in us.[/I]"

The word [COLOR="Red"]"not"[/COLOR] is wrong. Its not included in the original text. Also the last sentence should say "This is in some way a protest against Greek [B]indifference[/B] to us". Not[COLOR="red"] "interest"[/COLOR] in us.

The correct translation is below:

"[I]Whatever watering it may be, it refreshes us and made us turn our branches towards that place which I confess nothing unites us (Bulgarians) and to leave you whom [B]we have one blood and one history.[/B] This is some way a protest of against Greek [B]indifference[/B] to us.[/I]"

Now reading this interview I cant help but notice that Karev was looking for Greek support. His argument is that he was forced to side with the Bulgarians since Greek support was nonexistant.[/QUOTE]

It seems Karev was not very trusting of the Bulgarians. He didn't say he trusted the Greeks either. It is clear he wanted an autonomous Macedonia where anybody that helped being Greek, Bulgarian or other, would get gratitude only.

Daskalot 06-29-2011 01:15 AM

[QUOTE=Voltron;103526]There is a wrong translation on the second page of the english version. 4th bottom paragraph from the right top. It says:

"[I]Whatever kind of watering, it refreshes us and has forced us to turn our branches to that side which, we admit we have nothing in common, and to run from you with which we do [B][COLOR="Red"]not[/COLOR][/B] share the same blood and history. This is in some way a protest against Greek [COLOR="Red"][B]interest[/B][/COLOR] in us.[/I]"

The word [COLOR="Red"]"not"[/COLOR] is wrong. Its not included in the original text. Also the last sentence should say "This is in some way a protest against Greek [B]indifference[/B] to us". Not[COLOR="red"] "interest"[/COLOR] in us.

The correct translation is below:

"[I]Whatever watering it may be, it refreshes us and made us turn our branches towards that place which I confess nothing unites us (Bulgarians) and to leave you whom [B]we have one blood and one history.[/B] This is some way a protest of against Greek [B]indifference[/B] to us.[/I]"

Now reading this interview I cant help but notice that Karev was looking for Greek support. His argument is that he was forced to side with the Bulgarians since Greek support was nonexistant.[/QUOTE]

Your translation above is not that understandable, where did you get the '(Bulgarians)' part from? Is it in the text?
Voltron, did he say that he was a Macedonian?
Isn't it funny that the only instances you found are those two?

Voltron 06-29-2011 03:27 AM

No, but when he said that " our branches go towards the side that refreshes us even though nothing unites us " he obviously meant the Bulgarians. At least thats how I read it.

Also, I wasnt looking to point holes in the text, im just telling you the correct translation. The correct translation completely changes the meaning of how its written in English. According to the original text, Karev feels that he shares a common heritage with the Greeks. "Same blood, same history". I didnt say that, he did.

Now if what he said was posturing for support is a different debate which we'll never know the truth. But if he really believed that then I think its really significant in how perceptions change over time.

Voltron 06-29-2011 03:32 AM

[QUOTE=Soldier of Macedon;103564]If you read it a little more carefully you will also notice that he says [B][I]even if a Turk offers his hand to save us, we will grab it with gratitude[/I][/B]. The whole point was Macedonian independence - Greeks, Bulgars, Turks, etc were only a means to an end.[/QUOTE]

Yes, but I think he was really looking for support from the Greeks.
Albeit he was willing to accept support from wherever it came from but I think he was ultimatly bothered by the Greek indifference to the cause. He mentions it too at the last part where he says " This is some way a protest against Greek indifference to us ".

Daskalot 06-29-2011 05:37 AM

So Voltron does this change the fact that he is a Macedonian? And this is noted in a Greek source even. Do you remember when your compatriots claimed this document to be a fake, I am talking about the English version. Don't they look stupid now? When we have the original to support it.

Voltron 06-29-2011 07:01 AM

[QUOTE=Daskalot;103604]So Voltron does this change the fact that he is a Macedonian? And this is noted in a Greek source even. Do you remember when your compatriots claimed this document to be a fake, I am talking about the English version. Don't they look stupid now? When we have the original to support it.[/QUOTE]

I dont recall who said it was a fake. It is in Ion Dragoumis book, maybe you misunderstood what was being discussed at the time. The english translatin is off and maybe that is what was brought up.

Yes, he self declared himself as a Macedonian.
What is intersting is that when Karev said he was Macedonian, the response he received was then he is subsequently Greek. This was in 1903 not recent. Then towards the end Karev basically said we share the same blood and history. In other words "Una Faccia Una Razza " I dont know much about Karev, but my first impression is that he is a respectable individual.

makedonin 06-29-2011 10:25 AM

[quote=Voltron;103610]
the response he received was then he is subsequently Greek.
[/quote]
And his response was that he does not know, thus he sticks to what he knows, that is that he is a Macedonian.

Can we please stick to what we know...
[quote=Voltron;103610]
Then towards the end Karev basically said we share the same blood and history. In other words "Una Faccia Una Razza "[/quote]

You are somehow standing alone there. As far as the text reveals, Karev actually holds to his conviction that he is a Macedonian, he does not really cares much about others, and he is prepared to do anything to achieve Macedonian goals.
What he does not know he does not speculate about it.

But even if we take your version of the story is true, obviously the Interviewer was damping him and labels him as Bugarophron and did not consider him a kin, which really leaves you alone in the whole allusion here.

So we are left with one conclusion: Karev thought about him self to be a Macedonian, one like Alexandar. The rest was irrelevant to him.

Voltron 06-30-2011 03:44 AM

[QUOTE=makedonin;103628]And his response was that he does not know, thus he sticks to what he knows, that is that he is a Macedonian.

Can we please stick to what we know...


You are somehow standing alone there. As far as the text reveals, Karev actually holds to his conviction that he is a Macedonian, he does not really cares much about others, and he is prepared to do anything to achieve Macedonian goals.
What he does not know he does not speculate about it.

But even if we take your version of the story is true, obviously the Interviewer was damping him and labels him as Bugarophron and did not consider him a kin, which really leaves you alone in the whole allusion here.

So we are left with one conclusion: Karev thought about him self to be a Macedonian, one like Alexandar. The rest was irrelevant to him.[/QUOTE]

Makedonin,

Regarding Alexander and Macedonians he gives a reply to this. He says clearly that they were Greek. This confuses the interviewer because again Karev is asked, "then why you being Greek want to side with Bulgaria" ? Then he goes on to give his reasoning of the lack of support from Greece. His ultimate aim was to have a republic like Switzerland with "3 tribes" living in peace. Im not sure if he was referring to the tribes of Switzerland or Macedonia. What is clear though is that his intention was a Multi-Ethnic Republic.

Karev simply does not identify himself with anything else around him, being Greek, Turk or Bulgarian. He sees himself as Macedonian while respecting and not trying to negate the Greek history. Then to close the interview he says again "we share the same blood and history" which leaves the only difference between us to be linguistic in nature. That is an extremely balanced approach to this and too bad we dont have him around nowadays.

makedonin 06-30-2011 04:15 AM

[quote=Voltron;103716]Makedonin,

Regarding Alexander and Macedonians he gives a reply to this. He says clearly that they were Greek.
[/quote]
That is what he was thought, and that does not means that it is true, possibly in patriarchist school.
[quote=Voltron;103716]
This confuses the interviewer because again Karev is asked, "then why you being Greek want to side with Bulgaria" ?
[/quote]
The interviewer is confused because he thinks that the thought history is true and that all who claim descended from ancient Macedonians must align with the Greeks.
[quote=Voltron;103716]
Then he goes on to give his reasoning of the lack of support from Greece.
[/quote]
It is not just lack of support, but real outright hostility if you really knew history of the time. Greeks were working with turks against Macedonian revolutionaries just so that Macedonia won't be liberated and can be prepared for the later land grab.

And the support was expected because Macedonians were actively involved in liberation of Greece as Christian brothers, which was their only mistake and illusion, not some blood line.

Christianity did not prevent the Greeks to deliver Macedonian revolutionaries to the Turks on a plate, nor did their alleged blood kinship with Macedonians.
[quote=Voltron;103716]
His ultimate aim was to have a republic like Switzerland with "3 tribes" living in peace. Im not sure if he was referring to the tribes of Switzerland or Macedonia. What is clear though is that his intention was a Multi-Ethnic Republic.

[/quote]

Nothing wrong with Multi-Ethnic Republic.

It is what should give all other minorities the reason to be loyal to the Revolutionary movement for liberation of Macedonia.

You can't expect something with out giving something in return.

The idea is nothing new too. You have to look into the Kreshna/ Raslovci uprising where the idea was sounded already.

[quote=Voltron;103716]
[B]Karev simply does not identify himself with anything else around him, being Greek, Turk or Bulgarian. [/B]
[/quote]
Now you hit the nail on the head. Good that you noticed it.

However I wonder why you left out the Serbs and Albanians!?
[quote=Voltron;103716]
He sees himself as Macedonian while respecting and not trying to negate the Greek history.
[/quote]
Karev interests are of the present, which needs his whole attention.

The last thing he needs is to endeavor historical claims and debates.

He is just not interested with it, and reiterates what he already heard or learned somewhere else.

[quote=Voltron;103716]
Then to close the interview he says again "we share the same blood and history" which leaves the only difference between us to be linguistic in nature.
[/quote]
Well excuse me, but I don't see that in the story. How comes that you can see that?

Are you reinterpreting something here?
[quote=Voltron;103716]
That is an extremely balanced approach to this and too bad we dont have him around nowadays.[/quote]
I don't believe that he would really agree with you and your assertion.

Rogi 06-30-2011 08:07 AM

Voltron, your interpretation of his meaning and your subsequent conclusions are your own and yours alone. Others may interpret Karev's responses as meaning something quite different to your own interpretations.

For example, Karev says he is Macedonian. Then he says he is a descendant of Alexander the Great. This is a clear statement saying that he, as a Macedonian, like other Macedonians, are descended from the ancient Macedonians.

When the interviewer asks him if that means he is Greek, he responds with a clear 'no'. A clear statement here that follows on from the previous, where he disagrees with this notion that the ancient Macedonians were Greek, or at the very least that the Macedonians, related to the ancient Macedonians (according to Karev's previous statement), are not Greek.

When the interviewer pushes the notion that Alexander the Great was Greek, Karev's response can be interpreted as simply suggesting that the notion the interviewer is presenting is simply the one that is taught, not necessarily saying that it is truth.

Not unlike the present day.

Voltron 06-30-2011 08:22 AM

Of course others may have different interpretations. Mine are based off what he has said, whereas the english translation is wrong. So at least lets interpret the correct version.

Regarding the Macedonians of antiquity, it is often said that in those years Greeks did not identify with them. You have a thread dedicated to that, yet in 1903 it was obvious to Greeks that Macedonians meant Greek. Then there is the asseration that there were no Greeks in Macedonia in the last century, yet again Karev dispels that.

So although he says that he is Macedonian not Greek he then says we share the same blood and history. Its right there on the second page towards the end. On the english version its stated wrongly that he said we do not share the same blood and history.

Why would he say that ? [U]To me[/U] it can either be of two things. He wanted Greek support for his cause, or by saying he is Macedonian he is recognising the Greek Historical aspect of the term Macedonian. Is that such bad thing ? Afterall, isnt it you yourselves that say that the Slavic aspect is only linguistic in nature ? It seems to me that Karev has it all figured out.

Voltron 06-30-2011 08:28 AM

[QUOTE][QUOTE=makedonin;103720]

However I wonder why you left out the Serbs and Albanians!?[/QUOTE]

I didnt know how significant they were during that time. That was the reason why I left them out.

[QUOTE]Well excuse me, but I don't see that in the story. How comes that you can see that?[/QUOTE]

Its on the english version as well, its just that there is the word "not" which is not existing in the original document.

Also, I never said there was something wrong with a Multi-ethnic Republic. I didnt mean it that way. As far as what he was taught, well what can I say. If we start to doubt everything I might as well doubt the existance of outer space for example.

Rogi 06-30-2011 09:56 AM

Firstly, where in his answers do you see any indication to support this claim that '1903 it was obvious to Greeks that Macedonians meant Greek'?


[QUOTE=Voltron;103751]by saying he is Macedonian he is recognising the Greek Historical aspect of the term Macedonian[/QUOTE]

That's quite a stretch, perhaps you can elaborate further on how you came to this far-fetched conclusion?

Voltron 06-30-2011 03:10 PM

[QUOTE][QUOTE=Rogi;103755]Firstly, where in his answers do you see any indication to support this claim that '1903 it was obvious to Greeks that Macedonians meant Greek'?[/QUOTE]

I was referring to the interviewer.

[QUOTE]That's quite a stretch, perhaps you can elaborate further on how you came to this far-fetched conclusion?[/QUOTE]

On page 556 on the original text where Karev says " we share the same blood same history " thus acknowledging the Greek history behind the name Macedonia - Macedonians.

Its my opinion, dont shoot me for it.

Bill77 06-30-2011 03:36 PM

[QUOTE=Rogi]
Firstly, where in his answers do you see any indication to support this claim that '1903 it was obvious to Greeks that Macedonians meant Greek'? [QUOTE=Voltron;103767]
I was referring to the interviewer.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]


Liar, No you weren't, you only have to go to the recent post of yours to see who you were referring to.

[QUOTE]Why would he say that ? To me it can either be of two things. He wanted Greek support for his cause, or by saying he is Macedonian he is recognising the Greek Historical aspect of the term Macedonian. Is that such bad thing ? Afterall, isnt it you yourselves that say that the Slavic aspect is only linguistic in nature ? It seems to me that Karev has it all figured out.[/QUOTE]

Regarding the interviewer, i would not be surprised if he did think this bullshit that Alexander = Greek or Macedonians are Greeks. It was only 60 odd years before this that the Albanians in Greece were told they are sons of Pericles, Demostenisa and Socrates.

Daskalot 07-01-2011 06:58 PM

I have transcripted the scanned pages of the English translation, for clarity I have entered the name of who says what and I have also adjusted the translation with Voltron's comments and my own.
The text needs further refining, at least the last part of it.

The top part of the Greek original is not translated into English, this must be done.

[QUOTE][B][ION DRAGOUMIS][/B] -Are you Macedonian? I ask him.

[B][NIKOLA KAREV][/B] -Yes.

[B][ION DRAGOUMIS][/B] -And subsequently Greek.

[B][NIKOLA KAREV][/B] -I do not know about this, he answered, I am Macedonian.

[B][ION DRAGOUMIS][/B] -Direct descendent lo Alexander the Great? I reply ironically.

[B][NIKOLA KAREV][/B] -Yes.

[B][ION DRAGOUMIS][/B] -And what was Alexander of Macedon, I beg you?

[B][NIKOLA KAREV][/B] -I do not know, but history says that he was Greek.

[B][ION DRAGOUMIS][/B] -Then you, as his descendant are Greek.

[B][NIKOLA KAREV][/B] No, he answered.

[B][ION DRAGOUMIS][/B] -So, I ask him again, why, since you are already Greek,
do you want to free yourself using Bulgaria?

[B][NIKOLA KAREV][/B] -What Bulgaria, you mean the Committee?

[B][ION DRAGOUMIS][/B] -Yes.

[B][NIKOLA KAREV][/B] -My answer is that the Committee is not Bulgarian,
and second, it seems that we lean towards Bulgaria
because only they seem to be willing to help us.
If Greece was doing the same, we would accept it with all our heart.

[B][ION DRAGOUMIS][/B] -We see Bulgarian protection only surface deep Bulgaria does not
want to free you of Turkish slavery, but to subjugate you.

[B][NIKOLA KAREV][/B] -Hm! If Bulgaria intends to make us their province, it has made a poor estimate.
Otherwise, we are not interested in what Bulgaria thinks, but pay attention to the
following: "Are we achieving our aim?" Are we getting our freedom?
We are not interested in whether we get freed by Greece or Bulgaria.
The only thing anyone of them can get is our gratitude.

[B][ION DRAGOUMIS][/B] -All right, if you are freed, what do you want to be, an autonomy?

[B][NIKOLA KAREV][/B] -Yes, like it is in Switzerland, where three different tribes live in
complete love and harmony.

[B][ION DRAGOUMIS][/B] -Yes, but you know that that way you are doing a favour to
the Panslavistic Etheria whose branch is the Committee?

[B][NIKOLA KAREV][/B] -What kind of favour are we doing?

[B][ION DRAGOUMIS][/B] -As you made it clear above, Macedonia is a Greek land,
and if every Greek land requests that they be an autonomy,
then this will lead to a weaker Greece, and that is what the Panslavistic Etheria wants.

[B][NIKOLA KAREV][/B] -Why do they want this?

[B][ION DRAGOUMIS][/B] -So that one day it can subjugate both you and us,
and therefore it wants to find us weak in order to achieve that more easily.

For a moment Karev appeared absorbed in thought. I hurried to disrupt the silence.

[B][ION DRAGOUMIS][/B] -Why do you not want to unite with Greece?

[B][NIKOLA KAREV][/B] -Because if Mora (Greece) takes us it will become one large country,
and subsequently a monarchy. In that case many evils will emerge - first the monarchy
and everything else that comes with it, and second, Greece will force us to wage war
with Bulgana, which we do not want.

[B][ION DRAGOUMIS][/B] -What do you want?

He pointed to his cap.

[B][NIKOLA KAREV][/B] -We want a republic.

[B][ION DRAGOUMIS][/B] -Democracy and friendship with Bulgaria?

[B][NIKOLA KAREV][/B] -Not only with Bulgaria. but with anyone who will help us become free.

[B][ION DRAGOUMIS][/B] -You want to unite with Bulgaria?

[B][NIKOLA KAREV][/B] -No! No!

[B][ION DRAGOUMIS][/B] -Does the Committee teach you this too?

[B][NIKOLA KAREV][/B] -Yes.

[B][ION DRAGOUMIS][/B] -Then why does this Committee, which is so concerned
about your independence, not seek protection from Greece, which has a greater
responsibility to free you, but you have to lean towards these barbarians?

[B][NIKOLA KAREV][/B] -I will answer you immediately. We resemble a man who has
fallen in the sea and is in danger of drowning any moment. In order to save himself
will this man not grab anything he finds before him at that moment, even a snake?
We are in this kind of situation. Even if a Turk offers his hand to save us, we will grab it with gratitude.

[B][ION DRAGOUMIS][/B] -But, why are you killing Greek first borns, priests, and teachers,
if you have nothing special against anyone?

[B][NIKOLA KAREV][/B] -These are lies, the Committee does not only kill Greeks,
but Bulgarians and Serbs and Turks, and anyone who betrays.

[B][ION DRAGOUMIS][/B] -These are excuses for your sins. You destroyed many Greek patriots
because they did not give money to your Committee.

[B][NIKOLA KAREV][/B] -You, Greeks, like the others, are inventing these things.

[B][ION DRAGOUMIS][/B] -Which others?

[B][NIKOLA KAREV][/B] -Well, those in Thessaloniki, you assigned people to do what
they did in order to throw a shadow on the Committee.

I could not hold back from laughing loud which made the owner, Tasku Kvata, curious, and he approached me.

[B][TASKU KVATA][/B] -What does he say, he asked me.

[B][ION DRAGOUMIS][/B] -I told him.

[B][TASKU KVATA][/B] -Hm! How else could one see that he is a thickheaded Bulgarian. If he was not Bulgarian,
he would not be saying such words, especially now when the walls have ears.

[B][NIKOLA KAREV][/B] -Yes, yes, I say, Karev repeated -when a tree has broken the ground to sprout,
why should it not be watered to grow?

[B][ION DRAGOUMIS][/B] -And this tree to is only to be watered by Bulgaria now?

[B][NIKOLA KAREV] [/B]-Yes.

[B][ION DRAGOUMIS][/B] -Yes, but you know what Bulgaria waters it with, poison towards Greece.

[B][NIKOLA KAREV][/B] -Whatever watering it may be, it refreshes us and has made us turn our
branches towards that place which I confess nothing unites us and to leave you whom we
have one blood and one history. This is some way a protest against Greek indifference to us.

[B][ION DRAGOUMIS][/B] -What you say is the result of Bulgarian watering, because Greece has never
stopped supporting you through literacy and weapons.

And again Karev did not answer me.

[B][ION DRAGOUMIS][/B] -And what do you intend to do now? I asked him.

[B][NIKOLA KAREV][/B] -Nothing other than to continue the struggle.

[B][ION DRAGOUMIS][/B] -Yes, but do you not know that behind that struggle there is a mean and dishonest war hiding?

[B][NIKOLA KAREV][/B] -That does not interest us, it is enough that we achieve our aim.

[B][ION DRAGOUMIS][/B] -You mean by killing too?

[B][NIKOLA KAREV][/B] -If they are committed for the good of a people.

[B][ION DRAGOUMIS][/B] -You are right, the lessons you learnt are like the teachers who taught you...

Karev did not answer me again. He stood and slowly went towards his room, while behind him every guest in the hotel commented his words on various ways.[/QUOTE]

Daskalot 07-02-2011 05:55 AM

Here is some more info related to the topic.
[QUOTE]It should also be noted that the diaries that Ion Dragoumis kept during the Ilinden uprising were recently published and make fascinating reading. See I.Dragoumis, The Ilinden Notebooks (Athens: Petziva, 2000).[/QUOTE]

Risto the Great 07-02-2011 06:33 AM

Do we have any more information about the "Ilinden Diaries"?
It would be an interesting perspective to read I imagine.

Voltron 07-02-2011 06:54 AM

Nice job Daskale,

In the beginning I wasnt sure if it was Ion that was conducting the interview. Thats why I kept saying interviewer. In any case, good job on the format of the interview.
Karev seems like a very respectable figure, although he has no qualms in killing people to achieve his goal. Then again who didnt at the time. I agree with Risto, it really is an interesting perspective of that time.

Every time I re-read the interview I have new questions, I will post a few later on.

Daskalot 07-02-2011 06:58 AM

The book is on sale in Greece, it is an 736 pages book.
I assume that Lorenzo has had access to this book.

Lorenzo do you own the book?

Thank you.
Voltron you being in Greece and all, could you visit a library or even buy it?

Daskalot 07-02-2011 07:01 AM

Voltron, could you translate the top part of the Greek original which is not translated, the part before the interview.

Voltron 07-02-2011 07:03 AM

Yes, there are a couple online sites where the book can be purchased

[url]http://www.evripidis.gr/product.asp?code=010100016131[/url]

Il look into the library question Daskalot. Nowadays with the IMF situation here in Greece, Im kind of strapped if you know what I mean. The 39 Euros is a half a tank of gas for my car.

Voltron 07-02-2011 07:08 AM

[QUOTE=Daskalot;103921]Voltron, could you translate the top part of the Greek original which is not translated, the part before the interview.[/QUOTE]


Ok, Il do my best when I get back.

George S. 07-02-2011 07:38 AM

if there is anything new on karev it will be intersting to see what was in his mind.

Daskalot 07-07-2011 03:13 AM

[QUOTE=Voltron;103923]Ok, Il do my best when I get back.[/QUOTE]

Voltron, how is the translation coming along? Is it done yet? It cannot take more than 10 minutes to translate it :)


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