Macedonian Truth Forum

Macedonian Truth Forum (
-   Macedonian History (
-   -   Ancient Balkan Languages - Proto Slavic Words (

Soldier of Macedon 01-17-2009 10:23 AM

Ancient Balkan Languages - Proto Slavic Words
The Thracian language, or what is left of it anyway, has shown itself to be remarkably close to Balto-Slavic languages, on a much larger scale than with any other European language. Given that the area in which Balto-Slavic is spoken is somewhat larger than the Thracian territory, the notion that Thracian words in the Balto-Slavic languages are 'loan words' is automatically dismissed.

Check the following few to begin with:

Asa (Coltsfoot in Thracian)
Asys (Horse tail in Luthianian)
Opashka (Tail in Macedonian)
Ostro (Sharp in Macedonian)

Bolinthos (Wild bull in Thracian)
Biol (Bison in Macedonian)
Vol (Bull in Macedonian)

Brilon (Barber in Thracian)
Brichi (Shave in Macedonian)

Diza (Fortified settlement in Thracian)
Dzid (Wall in Macedonian)

Dinupula (Wild pumpkin in Thracian)
Dinya (Melon fruit in Macedonian)

There are plenty more to be posted.

Soldier of Macedon 01-17-2009 08:35 PM

I changed the title of the thread as the topics can be in the broader context of Balkan languages and Proto Slavic words in general.

Soldier of Macedon 01-17-2009 09:05 PM

Phrygian was spoken both in Asia Minor and the Balkans, where it is recorded that they lived among Macedonians, going by the name of Brygians and identified as a Thracian tribe.

When Alexander and the Macedonians entered Asia Minor they soon reached a certain river where a battle against the Persian forces took place. The river was located in Phrygian territory and was called [B]Granicus[/B] (Granikos).

Given that rivers form natural boundaries, it is very likely that the name of this particular river has a relative in the word [B]Granica[/B] (Granitsa), which is used in all Slavic languages to signify a 'border' or 'boundary'.

The word is related to a type of fortification or cordoning off, hence it may derive from the Phrygian word [B]Gordum[/B], which means 'city' and was the inspiration for the name of the Phrygian capital in Asia Minor.

[QUOTE][B][I]Gordum was the Phrygian word for city.[/I][/B][/QUOTE]

A word for city in the Slavic languages is [B]Grad[/B] or [B]Gorod[/B], an obvious cognate and close relative of [B]Gordum[/B]. Further words stemming from this can be seen in [B]Zagradi[/B] which means to 'fortify', [B]Gradina[/B] which means 'garden' (due to the concept of having a particular area cordoned off to grow foods), and [B]Gradi[/B] which means 'chest' (due to the fortified protection the bones in that area give to vital organs).

Such close relation in words cannot have arisen from loans, Phrygian (Brygian) as a language spoken historically in Asia Minor and among the people of Macedonia and Thrace demonstrates significant links to the Slavic languages.

Soldier of Macedon 01-17-2009 09:13 PM

With regard to Grad, Gorod, Gordum, Granica, etc, there may be a relation to the ancient Macedonian word for a 'branch', recorded by Hesychius as [B]Garkan[/B], and in modern Macedonian [B]Granka[/B].

Given that a branch is on the edge and fringes of the body of a tree, it appears to indicate a relation with [B]Granica[/B] as a 'boundary'.

Soldier of Macedon 01-17-2009 09:39 PM

Another ancient name for the river Danube is [B]Ister[/B] (Istros), and is of Scythian or Thracian origin, or both. The word is very close to Macedonian [B]Isturi[/B] and [B]Turi[/B] which mean to 'spill' and 'pour' respectively, thus providing a link with reference to an action in relation to liquid (such as water). There is also [B]Isterai[/B] and [B]Terai[/B] which mean to 'push/move along/out' and 'move/force' respectively, indicating a relation to the movement of flowing waters in a river.

Radislav Katicic in his 'Ancient Languages of the Balkans' suggests that the Thracian word [B]Istros[/B] means 'strong' or 'swift', related to a Sanskrit equivalent. Can there be a possible connection to the Slavic languages established with the word [B]Ostro[/B] which means 'sharp'? If so, it would call into question the relation of this word to the Thracian Asa.

Soldier of Macedon 01-18-2009 04:49 AM

Here is an interesting one which has been mentioned previously, the Macedonian word [B]Golem[/B] which means 'large'. In the same or similar form, it is present in some other Slavic languages although used in varying degrees such as [B]Golyam[/B] (Bulgarian), [B]Golem[/B] (Serbian, Croatian) and much less as [B]Holem[/B] (Czech).

In the Greek language to word [B]Megalo[/B] exists which means 'large'. The distinct similarity to the abovementioned Slavic word provides a strong case for a cognate.

While Macedonians (and Bulgarians and Serbs partially) have historically lived as direct neighbours of Greek-speakers, the Croats and Czechs have not, and these two shared no cultural or historical affinity with Greek-speakers in general.

If this is a Greek word by origin, how did the Czechs and Croats come to use it?

Delodephius 01-18-2009 05:21 AM

Just to ask you SoM, where did you find "holem" in Czech?

Soldier of Macedon 01-18-2009 05:27 AM

I read it in a Slavic language thread in a forum not too long ago where the poster had cited some poems or songs with the word. Is it present in Slovak, or do you think it is incorrect?

Soldier of Macedon 01-18-2009 05:32 AM

From here Slovak, check:


See post # 14:

[QUOTE]In Czech the adjective [B]holemý[/B] (the nominal form would be [B]holem[/B]) means velký, veliký = big. But it is not used nowadays. I think the younger generation do not know it at all. Nothing in common with the Jewish golem. I think it is rather distantly related to holý (gol = bare) and hlava (glava, golova = head).

Some archaic examples:

Těch kobylek bylo toho roku množství veliké v Arabii, a po skalách hor svatých i po cestě zvlášť v noci místem jich dosti zhusta se prolétalo; a byly [B]holemé[/B], nebo když nám někdy o tvář zavadily, zdálo se nejináč, než jakoby kamínky malými házel.

Jest pak pštros pokolení ptačí a divoké zvíře, velké co by člověk prostřední rukou nad hlavu vysáhnouti mohl; nohy má holé a tlusté co [B]holemé[/B] pachole v patnácti letech, ...[/QUOTE]

As a Czech I am assuming the poster called Cajzl is confident in the knowledge of his own language, but if something doesn't sound right, then I would appreciate it if you pointed it out, as it would limit the word to the Slavic languages in the Balkans although retaining distant Croatia.

Delodephius 01-18-2009 05:35 AM

Locative case of the word [B]holý[/B] - naked, clear, is [B]holem[/B].

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:50 AM.

Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Macedonian Truth Organisation