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-   -   Tsar Samoil and the Archbishopric of Ohrid in Macedonia (http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=879)

TrueMacedonian 09-03-2010 10:27 AM

Who invented the terms "First Bulgarian Empire" & "Second Bulgarian Empire"?
 
Was going through some older topics and noticed the imposter hellene Ohridski's post on page 5 here - [url]http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=2183&page=5[/url]

When discussing Samuel's empire the idiot stated;

[QUOTE]Samuel’s empire was fairly large and from what I know it was referred to as the First Bulgarian Empire.[/QUOTE]

When were these terms first intorduced? Surely they are recent?

thessalo-niki 09-03-2010 01:08 PM

Maybe that helps:
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Bulgarian_Empire#Nomenclature[/url]
__________________________________
Odysseas Elytis - Our name is our soul

TrueMacedonian 09-03-2010 01:44 PM

[QUOTE=thessalo-niki;69219]Maybe that helps:
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Bulgarian_Empire#Nomenclature[/url]
__________________________________
Odysseas Elytis - Our name is our soul[/QUOTE]

It doesn't help wiki boy.

Onur 09-03-2010 04:03 PM

Well, it`s not an invention of some kind. Bulgars founded their state at danube two times cuz Byzantines destroyed the first one and there is a time difference(About 170 years according to wiki) `till it`s reborn, the 2nd Bulgar Empire.

Also ruling monarchies was different. The first one was the descendants of Volga Bulgar people. At 2nd one, ruling monarchy was mostly converted Cumans. Well actually they are same people, mixed Cumans(Kipchaks) and Tatars.

TrueMacedonian 09-03-2010 07:40 PM

[QUOTE=Onur;69239]Well, it`s not an invention of some kind. Bulgars founded their state at danube two times cuz Byzantines destroyed the first one and there is a time difference(About 170 years according to wiki) `till it`s reborn, the 2nd Bulgar Empire.

Also ruling monarchies was different. The first one was the descendants of Volga Bulgar people. At 2nd one, ruling monarchy was mostly converted Cumans. Well actually they are same people, mixed Cumans(Kipchaks) and Tatars.[/QUOTE]

So when was the first time these terms were used Onur? If it was used during the East Roman era when the Bulgar Kingdom's were at war with the Romans then the term is not recent. If the term is recent (18th or 19th century) then it is invented by someone to have some sort of continuos historical timeline of a Bulgarian nation which may not be accurate.

Onur 09-05-2010 12:14 PM

[QUOTE=TrueMacedonian;69246]So when was the first time these terms were used Onur? If it was used during the East Roman era when the Bulgar Kingdom's were at war with the Romans then the term is not recent. If the term is recent (18th or 19th century) then it is invented by someone to have some sort of continuos historical timeline of a Bulgarian nation which may not be accurate.[/QUOTE]


I dont know when it was started to use but in this book below, you can read about how the 2nd Bulgar Empire founded at chapter-2, page 13. Download it here;

[url]http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showpost.php?p=52110&postcount=25[/url]


Author gives quotes and memoirs from Byzantine archive of that era. It looks like the inhabitants of 1st Bulgar Empire was giving high taxes to Byzantines after it`s destruction. Two brother, who claimed to be the descendants of previous Bulgar monarchy starts a rebellion against Byzantines together with the Vlachs. Probably they were really the descendants because Byzantine historians says that they were meeting with high officials of Byzantine Empire with that tag. Neither Bulgars nor Vlachs had a proper army to oppose Byzantines, so they ask help from the Cuman Turks(still pagans at that era) who had been living at north of Danube and they forms an alliance... [Read the book for the rest]

So, there was a continuity between 1st and 2nd Bulgar kingdom at 12-13th century but if you ask about today`s Bulgaria, imo, it`s questionable. You know, the name "Bulgars" has much older history than the foundation of 1st Bulgaria at Danube cuz we can even find notes about Bulgar people in several Jewish chronicles from 6th century and I believe the Volga Bulgars deserves their name more than the one in Balkans today cuz at least they still speak their original language, chuvash dialect of Turkic.

TrueMacedonian 09-06-2010 02:55 PM

[QUOTE]So, there was a continuity between 1st and 2nd Bulgar kingdom at 12-13th century [/QUOTE]

I don't know what you mean by "12th-13th century" Onur? The supposed first Bulgarian empire started in the 7th century and supposedly ended in the 11th century. The 2nd Bulgarian empire started in the 12th century and lasted into the 15th century.

I think there is some questionable content about Tsar Samuel and his kingdom.

TrueMacedonian 10-22-2010 07:05 PM

I think I may have found the first time the terms "First Bulgarian Kingdom" and "Second Bulgarian Kingdom" were used. It seems that Edward Gibbons may be the culprit followed by William Martin Leake. These terms are recent inventions. Unless someone can provide their use from earlier times.

TrueMacedonian 10-28-2010 10:19 PM

The Battle of Belasica/Kleidion myth
 
[IMG]http://i754.photobucket.com/albums/xx190/TM2_album/Macedonians/Tsar%20Samoil/MarkWhittow.jpg[/IMG]
page 387
[IMG]http://i754.photobucket.com/albums/xx190/TM2_album/Macedonians/Tsar%20Samoil/MarkWhittow387.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i754.photobucket.com/albums/xx190/TM2_album/Macedonians/Tsar%20Samoil/MarkWhittow388.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i754.photobucket.com/albums/xx190/TM2_album/Macedonians/Tsar%20Samoil/MarkWhittow388a.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i754.photobucket.com/albums/xx190/TM2_album/Macedonians/Tsar%20Samoil/CatherineHolmes.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i754.photobucket.com/albums/xx190/TM2_album/Macedonians/Tsar%20Samoil/CatherineHolmes155.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i754.photobucket.com/albums/xx190/TM2_album/Macedonians/Tsar%20Samoil/CatherineHolmes155a.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i754.photobucket.com/albums/xx190/TM2_album/Macedonians/Tsar%20Samoil/PaulStephenson.jpg[/IMG]
page 2
[IMG]http://i754.photobucket.com/albums/xx190/TM2_album/Macedonians/Tsar%20Samoil/PaulStephenson2.jpg[/IMG]
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[IMG]http://i754.photobucket.com/albums/xx190/TM2_album/Macedonians/Tsar%20Samoil/PaulStephenson3a.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i754.photobucket.com/albums/xx190/TM2_album/Macedonians/Tsar%20Samoil/PaulStephenson4.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i754.photobucket.com/albums/xx190/TM2_album/Macedonians/Tsar%20Samoil/PaulStephenson4a.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i754.photobucket.com/albums/xx190/TM2_album/Macedonians/Tsar%20Samoil/PaulStephenson5.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i754.photobucket.com/albums/xx190/TM2_album/Macedonians/Tsar%20Samoil/PaulStephenson6.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i754.photobucket.com/albums/xx190/TM2_album/Macedonians/Tsar%20Samoil/PaulStephenson7.jpg[/IMG]

Soldier of Macedon 10-28-2010 11:06 PM

I have some excerpts from Skylitzes regarding Samoil and Basil, but not the whole text. Any idea on how we can obtain it? Tried looking for it once but no luck as of yet.


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