Macedonian Truth Forum

Macedonian Truth Forum (http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/index.php)
-   Exposing Lies and Propaganda (http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=6)
-   -   Origins of Albanian language and ethnos (http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=2012)

Carlin 04-19-2017 11:23 PM

Sir Arthur Evans
[I]Antiquarian researches in Illyricum[/I]

Pg. 107:

"Amongst the Albanian tribes the evidence of the [B]absorption of Romanized elements[/B] is still more striking, nor is this anywhere more evident than amongst those members of the Albanian race who inhabit the [B]Dardanian ranges[/B]."

Carlin 04-22-2017 06:44 AM

[URL=http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/Carlin177/media/VeikouTitle_zpsyo046zmv.png.html][IMG]http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w416/Carlin177/VeikouTitle_zpsyo046zmv.png[/IMG][/URL]
[URL=http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/Carlin177/media/VeikouA_zpspbag3bga.png.html][IMG]http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w416/Carlin177/VeikouA_zpspbag3bga.png[/IMG][/URL]

Carlin 04-24-2017 10:42 PM

[URL=http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/Carlin177/media/Noel%20Malcolm%20-%20Kosovo2C%20A%20Short%20History%20Page%2025_zps8r03r0hq.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w416/Carlin177/Noel%20Malcolm%20-%20Kosovo2C%20A%20Short%20History%20Page%2025_zps8r03r0hq.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

[URL=http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/Carlin177/media/The%20Romanians%20and%20the%20Turkic%20Nomads%20Extracts_zpsfephu1f1.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w416/Carlin177/The%20Romanians%20and%20the%20Turkic%20Nomads%20Extracts_zpsfephu1f1.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

[URL=http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/Carlin177/media/Theory%20and%20Practice%20in%20Late%20Antique%20Archaeology2C%20Pages%2061%20-%2062_zps8konuufl.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w416/Carlin177/Theory%20and%20Practice%20in%20Late%20Antique%20Archaeology2C%20Pages%2061%20-%2062_zps8konuufl.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

Carlin 04-25-2017 08:29 PM

Eqrem Cabej page 51 -
[URL=http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/Carlin177/media/Eqrem%20Cabej%20Page%2051_zps7toskmzb.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w416/Carlin177/Eqrem%20Cabej%20Page%2051_zps7toskmzb.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

In the text of the picture, Eqrem Cabej refers to the positions of Gustav Weigand, who was the first to question, with serious arguments, the case of the origins of Skipetars from the ancient Illyrians. G. Weigand's arguments were mainly two, mainly linguistic.

G. Weigand's first argument concerns the "form" of the toponyms of Albania which do not have Albanian "form" but Latin-Dalmatian. The second argument concerns the fact that if the Albanians always lived in the area of present-day Albania, the ancient place names of the region would have evolved on the basis of the vocabulary of their own language, which is not the case. It is immediately evident, according to G. Weigand, that these place names have a clear Slavic "character" or an Italian-Venetian or Dalmatian character in the coastal areas.

What do these mean? Quite simply, the place names of Albania do not come from the Skipetarian language, but mainly from the Dalmatian language (a Romance language akin to [I]Vlachika[/I] - but not the same).

Carlin 04-28-2017 09:13 PM

Who are the [I]Illyrians[/I] of Manuel II Palaeologus?

The Letters of Manuel II Palaeologus - Corpus Fontium Historiae Byzantinae (1977) Pages 210-211
[URL=http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/Carlin177/media/The%20Letters%20of%20Manuel%20II%20Palaeologus%20-%20Corpus%20Fontium%20Historiae%20Byzantinae%2019772c%20Pages%20210%20-%20211_zpsycvwndyo.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w416/Carlin177/The%20Letters%20of%20Manuel%20II%20Palaeologus%20-%20Corpus%20Fontium%20Historiae%20Byzantinae%2019772c%20Pages%20210%20-%20211_zpsycvwndyo.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

Carlin 04-30-2017 07:40 AM

[B]Directorium ad passagium faciendum[/B]

[B]Around 1330[/B], a Dominican monk (Catholic Christian) wrote a message to the King of France to motivate him to campaign against the Orthodox Christians to subdue them to the Pope. This text is known as "Directorium ad passagium faciendum" and contains, among other things, some useful information on [B][U]the area of ​​northern Albania & Montenegro[/U] that was then part of the medieval Serbian kingdom[/B]. Let's see what he writes about this area.

The following text is from "Directorium ad passagium faciendum" as published in the American publication "The American historical review", Vol. 13 (1908), pages 96 and 97. The original text is of course in Latin:

“Hoc inter cetera facit ad dictum regnum facilius capiendum quod sunt ibi [B]duae nationes[/B], una videlicet [B]Albanensium et Latinorum[/B], qui omnes sub fide et obedientia Romanae Ecclesiae perseuerant, et secundum hoc habent Archiepiscopos, Episcopos, et Abbates, ac inferiores status et gradus religiosos et clericos seculares. [B]Latini habent sex ciuitates[/B] cum suis Episcopis, primam Antibarum archiepiscopalem, deinde Catharensem, Dulcedinensem, Suaciensem, Scutarensem, et Driuacensem; quas quidem solum Latini inhabitant. Populus vero earum siue Albanenses in tota ipsarum diocesi extra muros. Sunt etiam Albanensium quatuor ciuitates, videlicet Polati, Minoris, Salutensis, et Albanensis. Quae omnes cum praedictis ciuitatibus Latinorum Antibarensi Archiepiscopo et Ecclesiae jure metropolitico sunt subjectae. [B]Et licet Albanenses aliam omnino linguam a Latina habeant et diuersam, tamen literam Latinam habent in usu et in omnibus suis libris[/B].”

The gist of it is as follows:
- The region in question (northern Albania & Montenegro) is inhabited by TWO NATIONS, namely ALBANIANS and LATINS - and both nations are Roman Catholic.
- The LATINS reside in six cities (such as Bar, Kotor, Ulcinj, etc.) in which ONLY LATINS live. Outside the city walls, ALBANIANS are the majority of residents throughout the region. ALBANIANS have four cities.
- ALBANIANS speak a language that is quite different from the one LATINS speak, but they use Latin in all their books.

I will provide my thoughts & ramblings on this later on.

Carlin 04-30-2017 09:07 PM

Let's take into account (another) "peculiarity" of the [B]Gheg[/B] dialect of the Albanian/Skipetarian language. The following comes from the book "The Languages and Linguistics of Europe", page 199.

[URL=http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/Carlin177/media/The%20Languages%20and%20Linguistics%20of%20Europe%20Page%20199_zpsiro2pch0.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w416/Carlin177/The%20Languages%20and%20Linguistics%20of%20Europe%20Page%20199_zpsiro2pch0.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

In the underlined text the (Albanian) writer refers to a known "anomaly" of the [B]Gheg[/B] dialect.

This known anomaly "points" to directions [U]outside[/U] of the Balkans, given that Gheg is the "native" dialect of the Skipetarian language, and its most ancient dialect. And that's what we need to investigate in more detail.

Risto the Great 04-30-2017 09:54 PM

Are you referring to the true infinitive?
In which case, it seems that existed in ancient Greek (but not in modern).

Carlin 05-01-2017 05:57 PM

[QUOTE=Risto the Great;168201]Are you referring to the true infinitive?
In which case, it seems that existed in ancient Greek (but not in modern).[/QUOTE]

As per the author,

Rhotacism [U]and[/U] the true inf. in the Gheg dialect.

Carlin 05-03-2017 06:23 AM

The following text is from Edith Durham's book "High Albania and its Customs in 1908", page 454:

[I]“These tribes are divided into several marked groups. The first group Ι visited was [B]Maltsia e madhe, the Great Mountainous Land[/B]. This consists of five large tribes and three small ones. Four of the five large ones each tells that [B]its ancestor came from the north with his family, THIRTEEN OR FOURTEEN GENERATIONS AGO[/B], flying from the advancing Turks. In some cases they found uninhabited land and settled on it. In others, they fought with the men already on the land, and finally settled among them. These former inhabitants they call Anas, which is interpreted in the latest Albanian Dictionary as "aborigines"...

They intermarried with the Anas. A few houses in the Hoti tribe still trace direct descent from the Anas, in the male line. All four of these tribes (Skreli, Hoti, Gruda, Kilmeni) tell that [B][U]their ancestors CAME FROM BOSNIA OR THE HERZEGOVINA, precise district unknown[/U][/B].”[/I]

In the same book, we also find:

[I]“[B]The second tribal group I visited was the Pulati group, called also Maltsia e vogel[/B][B], the small mountainous land.[/B] [B]Here also a tale of immigration is told by the more important tribes, but of immigration, not from the north, but [U]from the east, the district known in earlier days as Rashia[/U].[/B] These people tell that they arrived before the Maltsia e madhe people did. As the Turks penetrated Rashia considerably before they subdued Bosnia, this tale also is probably true. They too tell that they found previous inhabitants who were a small dark people. In the tribe of Shala there are still eight houses that trace descent from these early inhabitants. The other families migrated in a body "a long time ago" to the neighbourhood of Dechani (probably at the end of the seventeenth century, when the Serbs left it in numbers and fled to Hungary)…”[/I]

I note these myths and legendary tales merely to dismiss them. I don't need to go into details who Edith Durham was. The simple point here is that it appears that she recorded and wrote down what the residents themselves told her, and [U]this was roughly 100 years ago[/U]. Well and good.

The question whether the above mentioned (ancient) Gheg tribes are indeed from Bosnia, Herzegovina or Rashia is irrelevant, [I]"possible"[/I] but irrelevant. The interesting question here is how many people out there (perhaps even historians) are aware or know of Gheg [I]claims[/I] that they are from Bosnia or Herzegovina?


Changing gears and returning to the [I]"Latins"[/I] of Albania (on which I have much more to share), the following text comes from the 5th chapter of "Alexiada" (Corpus Scriptorum Historiae Byzantinae, Anna Comnena, Volumen I, Bonnae, MDCCCXXXIX (1839), p. 223):

[I]“[U]Οι δ' εντός [B]Δυρραχίου[/B][/U], καθάπερ ο λόγος εδήλωσεν, [U]επεί οι πλείους από [B]Μέλφης και Βενετίας ήσαν άποικοι[/U][/B], τα ξυμπεσόντα τω αυτοκράτορι μεμαθηκότες και την τοσαύτην ανδροκτασίαν καί την των τηλικούτων ανδρών σφαγήν και τους στόλους υποκεχωρηκότας και ότι ο Ρομπέρτος εις το επιόν έαρ την πολιορκίαν ταμιεύεται, διεσκοπείτο έκαστος ότι πράττειν χρή και σώζεσθαι και μη αύθις ες τοσούτους εμπεπτωκέναι κινδύνους”.[/I]

As can be seen from the above text, the majority of residents of Dyrrachium/Durrės in the late 11th century were [B]settlers from the Italian cities of Venice and Amalfi[/B]. The presence of [I]Latin[/I]-speakers in the city should not be particularly impressive since both Venice and Amalfi were important commercial cities and naval forces in medieval times.

In the course of time, the two "Italian" powers will expand in the region, always Dyrrachium as the base of operations, and also attract the local [I]"Latins"[/I] of the neighboring towns and districts.

Thanks for reading.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:37 PM.

Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Macedonian Truth Organisation