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-   -   Interview with Nikola Karev 1903 I am Macedonian (http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=5666)

makedonin 06-28-2011 05:52 AM

[quote=Daskalot;103478]Ok good to know, do you still have the original Makedonin?[/quote]

Unfortunately the original is long gone too... најверојатно сам го изгубил при селење.

Daskalot 06-28-2011 05:57 AM

Ok, lets see what we can find out, remember time is on our side :)

makedonin 06-28-2011 06:04 AM

[quote=Daskalot;103480]Ok, lets see what we can find out, remember time is on our side :)[/quote]

Till date I haven't found any online sources for that immigrant Paper. It was distributed through a network here in Germany, but most probably printed elsewhere. I have lost contact to the people that were distributors due to shift of place of living.

But hey, time is on our side :) maybe some day...

Voltron 06-28-2011 03:17 PM

There is a wrong translation on the second page of the english version. 4th bottom paragraph from the right top. It says:

"[I]Whatever kind of watering, it refreshes us and has forced us to turn our branches to that side which, we admit we have nothing in common, and to run from you with which we do [B][COLOR="Red"]not[/COLOR][/B] share the same blood and history. This is in some way a protest against Greek [COLOR="Red"][B]interest[/B][/COLOR] in us.[/I]"

The word [COLOR="Red"]"not"[/COLOR] is wrong. Its not included in the original text. Also the last sentence should say "This is in some way a protest against Greek [B]indifference[/B] to us". Not[COLOR="red"] "interest"[/COLOR] in us.

The correct translation is below:

"[I]Whatever watering it may be, it refreshes us and made us turn our branches towards that place which I confess nothing unites us (Bulgarians) and to leave you whom [B]we have one blood and one history.[/B] This is some way a protest of against Greek [B]indifference[/B] to us.[/I]"

Now reading this interview I cant help but notice that Karev was looking for Greek support. His argument is that he was forced to side with the Bulgarians since Greek support was nonexistant.

Soldier of Macedon 06-29-2011 12:58 AM

[QUOTE="Voltron"]Now reading this interview I cant help but notice that Karev was looking for Greek support. His argument is that he was forced to side with the Bulgarians since Greek support was nonexistant.[/QUOTE]
If you read it a little more carefully you will also notice that he says [B][I]even if a Turk offers his hand to save us, we will grab it with gratitude[/I][/B]. The whole point was Macedonian independence - Greeks, Bulgars, Turks, etc were only a means to an end.

Stojacanec 06-29-2011 01:13 AM

[QUOTE=Voltron;103526]There is a wrong translation on the second page of the english version. 4th bottom paragraph from the right top. It says:

"[I]Whatever kind of watering, it refreshes us and has forced us to turn our branches to that side which, we admit we have nothing in common, and to run from you with which we do [B][COLOR="Red"]not[/COLOR][/B] share the same blood and history. This is in some way a protest against Greek [COLOR="Red"][B]interest[/B][/COLOR] in us.[/I]"

The word [COLOR="Red"]"not"[/COLOR] is wrong. Its not included in the original text. Also the last sentence should say "This is in some way a protest against Greek [B]indifference[/B] to us". Not[COLOR="red"] "interest"[/COLOR] in us.

The correct translation is below:

"[I]Whatever watering it may be, it refreshes us and made us turn our branches towards that place which I confess nothing unites us (Bulgarians) and to leave you whom [B]we have one blood and one history.[/B] This is some way a protest of against Greek [B]indifference[/B] to us.[/I]"

Now reading this interview I cant help but notice that Karev was looking for Greek support. His argument is that he was forced to side with the Bulgarians since Greek support was nonexistant.[/QUOTE]

It seems Karev was not very trusting of the Bulgarians. He didn't say he trusted the Greeks either. It is clear he wanted an autonomous Macedonia where anybody that helped being Greek, Bulgarian or other, would get gratitude only.

Daskalot 06-29-2011 01:15 AM

[QUOTE=Voltron;103526]There is a wrong translation on the second page of the english version. 4th bottom paragraph from the right top. It says:

"[I]Whatever kind of watering, it refreshes us and has forced us to turn our branches to that side which, we admit we have nothing in common, and to run from you with which we do [B][COLOR="Red"]not[/COLOR][/B] share the same blood and history. This is in some way a protest against Greek [COLOR="Red"][B]interest[/B][/COLOR] in us.[/I]"

The word [COLOR="Red"]"not"[/COLOR] is wrong. Its not included in the original text. Also the last sentence should say "This is in some way a protest against Greek [B]indifference[/B] to us". Not[COLOR="red"] "interest"[/COLOR] in us.

The correct translation is below:

"[I]Whatever watering it may be, it refreshes us and made us turn our branches towards that place which I confess nothing unites us (Bulgarians) and to leave you whom [B]we have one blood and one history.[/B] This is some way a protest of against Greek [B]indifference[/B] to us.[/I]"

Now reading this interview I cant help but notice that Karev was looking for Greek support. His argument is that he was forced to side with the Bulgarians since Greek support was nonexistant.[/QUOTE]

Your translation above is not that understandable, where did you get the '(Bulgarians)' part from? Is it in the text?
Voltron, did he say that he was a Macedonian?
Isn't it funny that the only instances you found are those two?

Voltron 06-29-2011 03:27 AM

No, but when he said that " our branches go towards the side that refreshes us even though nothing unites us " he obviously meant the Bulgarians. At least thats how I read it.

Also, I wasnt looking to point holes in the text, im just telling you the correct translation. The correct translation completely changes the meaning of how its written in English. According to the original text, Karev feels that he shares a common heritage with the Greeks. "Same blood, same history". I didnt say that, he did.

Now if what he said was posturing for support is a different debate which we'll never know the truth. But if he really believed that then I think its really significant in how perceptions change over time.

Voltron 06-29-2011 03:32 AM

[QUOTE=Soldier of Macedon;103564]If you read it a little more carefully you will also notice that he says [B][I]even if a Turk offers his hand to save us, we will grab it with gratitude[/I][/B]. The whole point was Macedonian independence - Greeks, Bulgars, Turks, etc were only a means to an end.[/QUOTE]

Yes, but I think he was really looking for support from the Greeks.
Albeit he was willing to accept support from wherever it came from but I think he was ultimatly bothered by the Greek indifference to the cause. He mentions it too at the last part where he says " This is some way a protest against Greek indifference to us ".

Daskalot 06-29-2011 05:37 AM

So Voltron does this change the fact that he is a Macedonian? And this is noted in a Greek source even. Do you remember when your compatriots claimed this document to be a fake, I am talking about the English version. Don't they look stupid now? When we have the original to support it.


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