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Bij 10-17-2009 09:16 PM

[QUOTE=Soldier of Macedon;25000]She was born in Macedonia of Albanian and possibly Macedonian origins, if anything the Macedonians would have more right to make such a request than Albania. But as TM said, that would be wrong. Macedonia will celebrate her memory because she was born there and that in itself is a significant fact, but she carried out most of her life's work in India, her body belongs there, I am sure that she would have wanted the same thing. Let her rest in peace.[/QUOTE]

my sentiments exactly!

Soldier of Macedon 10-18-2009 09:59 PM

Macedonian and Albanian - Linguistic Comparison
 
Let us compare standard marine terms between Macedonian and Albanian, and determine their origins. I have included Italian as a section for reasons that will become obvious shortly.

[U]English-Macedonian-Albanian-Italian[/U]

Fish - Riba - [B]Peshk - Pesce[/B]
Sand - Pesok - [B]Rere - Rena[/B]
Water - Voda - Uje - Acqua
River - Reka - [B]Lume - Fiume[/B]
Lake - Ezero - [B]Liquen - Lago[/B]
Sea - More - Deti - Mare
Swim - Pliva - [B]Notoj - Nuoto[/B]

All of the Macedonian words are native and also common in the Slavonic languages, which means that they are not loans from Italian. Albanian, on the other hand, differs substantially, as their current living space has often been under Italian influence, and the similarity of the words between Albanian and Italian would have to mean that they are either of a common origin or one has loaned en masse from the other. As Albanian examples are lacking in Italian, it is rather obvious that Albanian has taken from Italian, and not the other way around.


I will post more examples as they come to mind. I hope some our of Albanian members like Astrit can contribute.

Risto the Great 10-18-2009 10:50 PM

Hi SoM, an interesting exercise.
I would have thought the Venetian language might be more appropriate than Italian as a means of comparison, but most examples do not line up as similar as contemporary Italian.

Bij 10-19-2009 12:57 AM

We borrow from Italian, don't we? I used Macedonian to help learn italian, but they do say the more languages you know, the easier it is to make mental connections between words

for eg, the word 'vetrina' is the same. mould/muvla/mufla, vai/vie


and in turn, italy names its fruit salad after us 'salata di macedone' :)

Soldier of Macedon 10-19-2009 01:59 AM

That's insignificant in comparison, Latin elements are strong in Albanian, very strong, as are some others. Albanian has borrowed a huge amount of loans that have become core and fundamental in the language, the same cannot be said of Macedonian.

Are you of Albanian ancestry?

Soldier of Macedon 10-19-2009 02:01 AM

[QUOTE=Risto the Great;25113]Hi SoM, an interesting exercise.
I would have thought the Venetian language might be more appropriate than Italian as a means of comparison, but most examples do not line up as similar as contemporary Italian.[/QUOTE]
I think that Venetian would probably be found in the more 'traditional' Albanian words where it may be assumed by some that they are native rather than loaned.

Albanian as a language would have received its Slavonic influence from dialects related to Macedonian and those of Serbia and Montenegro, through interaction/settlers, kingdoms and churches. So I will use Macedonian as the reference point unless otherwise required (for example, a word that exists solely in Serbian).

Astrit 10-19-2009 03:34 AM

Albanian: Pellg-puddle


[QUOTE=Soldier of Macedon;25133]That's insignificant in comparison, Latin elements are strong in Albanian, very strong, as are some others. Albanian has borrowed a huge amount of loans that have become core and fundamental in the language, the same cannot be said of Macedonian.

Are you of Albanian ancestry?[/QUOTE]

The language has managed to survive for this long it is a accomplishment I believe considering all the invasion, foreign influence on a relatively small group of people. Most Albanians were once Catholic so Latin influence is to be expected, 1/3 of Albanian consists of Latin loans, another 1/3 is considered Proto-Albanian the rest would fit into the "other" category.

Soldier of Macedon 10-19-2009 07:13 PM

[QUOTE="Astrit"]1/3 of Albanian consists of Latin loans, another 1/3 is considered Proto-Albanian the rest would fit into the "other" category.[/QUOTE]
So then it would be fair to say that today's Albanian vocabulary is more non-Albanian than Albanian?

How much % of Slavonic words in the Albanian language? 20%? 10%? Less? I notice that even words such as 'Besa' have a Slavonic origin, were you aware of this? 'Beseda' is cited in Church Slavonic texts from the 9th century.

Soldier of Macedon 10-19-2009 09:24 PM

Let's look at a Macedonian-Albanian comparison of terms related to kinship, I am using the common words for each example, and a possible relation in other languages. Again, note that all Macedonian words are native and not loaned from other languages. I have separated the comparison into 3 sub-sections to indicate the possibility of native words, Ottoman loans and Latin loans.


[U]English-Macedonian-Albanian-Other[/U]

Father - Tatko - [B]Baba - Baba[/B] (Arabic)
Mother - Majka - [B]Nene - Ane[/B] (Turkish)
Uncle - Chichko - [B]Daje - Dayi[/B] (Turkish)
Aunty - Tetka - [B]Teze/Halle - Teyze/Hala[/B] (Turkish)

Sister - Sestra - [B]Motra - Madre[/B] (Italian for 'mother')
Grandchild - Vnuk - [B]Nip - Nipote [/B](Italian)
Woman - Zhena - [B]Femer - Femina[/B] (Italian)
Child - Dete - [B]Femija - Femina[/B] (Italian for 'woman')

Grandfather - Dedo - Gjysh (Authentic Alb. word?)
Grandmother - Baba - Gjyshe (Authentic Alb. word?)
Man - Mazh - Burre (Authentic Alb. word?)
Brother - Brat - Vella - (Authentic Alb. word?)
Son - Sin - Bir - (Authentic Alb. word?)
Daughter - Kjerka - Bije (Authentic Alb. word?)
Cousin - Bratuched - Kusheri (Authentic Alb. word?)

Soldier of Macedon 10-19-2009 09:58 PM

TM, this is one of your links.

[url]http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1957[/url]


It appears to be the same Maniakos that transferred populations from Sicily to Albania in the 11th century.


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