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-   -   what to say? (http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=9093)

nushevski77 01-26-2019 12:02 AM

what to say?
 
post deleted

Liberator of Makedonija 01-26-2019 12:22 AM

[QUOTE=nushevski77;178748]how would you reply to this? Had a serb tell me today that i'm actually a greek but am a wanna be bulgarian; never in my life have I heard someone say this before, online or in person so I was so shocked and confused I just walked away. His evidence was that in metaxes biography it supposedly says that the greeks had to re-hellenize the greeks in northern greece because they were all subjected to bulgarian propaganda and needed to make them greeks again, like wtf i've never heard this angle before what would you say to this, I just walked away[/QUOTE]

Mate how young are you?

Liberator of Makedonija 01-26-2019 01:19 AM

[QUOTE=nushevski77;178750]20, I was at university and herd this guy speaking serbian and I thought it was macedonian at first so I introduced myself, was trying to network for business since im an accounting major[/QUOTE]

No offence but you're coming off as a very naive 20 year old Macedonian.

Amphipolis 01-26-2019 09:40 AM

I can’t see your original post but actually none of the two statements is unheard.

I’ve been told the exact same thing by a Serb. They don’t consider you Serbs but Bulgarians (due to linguistic proximity). I remember a Serb had told me that Muslim Bosnians are more genuine Serbs than you.

You don’t need Metaxas memoirs to know. Greeks and Bulgarians (and Serbs) contested to attract the Slavs of Macedonia and persuade them they are actually Greeks, Bulgarians or Serbs.

Part of the Greek propaganda may seem funny now as it would be summarized in phrases like “You can’t be Bulgarians. You’re glorious Macedonians, descendants of Alexander the Great”. Even some of the most bizarre sides of modern “antiquization” propaganda can be found done by… Greek propagandists of late 1800s, early 1900s (we have relevant threads, e.g. tracing Homeric remnants in Slavic dialects).

vicsinad 01-26-2019 10:40 AM

[QUOTE=Amphipolis;178755]I can’t see your original post but actually none of the two statements is unheard.

I’ve been told the exact same thing by a Serb. They don’t consider you Serbs but Bulgarians (due to linguistic proximity). I remember a Serb had told me that Muslim Bosnians are more genuine Serbs than you.

You don’t need Metaxas memoirs to know. Greeks and Bulgarians (and Serbs) contested to attract the Slavs of Macedonia and persuade them they are actually Greeks, Bulgarians or Serbs.

Part of the Greek propaganda may seem funny now as it would be summarized in phrases like “You can’t be Bulgarians. You’re glorious Macedonians, descendants of Alexander the Great”. Even some of the most bizarre sides of modern “antiquization” propaganda can be found done by… Greek propagandists of late 1800s, early 1900s (we have relevant threads, e.g. tracing Homeric remnants in Slavic dialects).[/QUOTE]

Buddy, you've been warned enough. We are not and were not "Slavs of Macedonia." This Turkish Greek-wannabe should be removed from this site.

And second, your statement is not factual. Some Serbs look to us as Macedonians, others as Bulgarians, and other as Serbs.

Amphipolis 01-26-2019 11:47 AM

[QUOTE=vicsinad;178756]Buddy, you've been warned enough. [B]We are not and were not "Slavs of Macedonia."[/B] This Turkish Greek-wannabe should be removed from this site.[/QUOTE]

Then try not to write a book about the American Slav Congress. Also, ask yourself if anyone (including your own people) takes your above statement seriously.

Gocka 01-26-2019 11:54 AM

[QUOTE=Amphipolis;178758]Then try not to write a book about the American Slav Congress. Also, ask yourself if anyone (including your own people) takes your above statement seriously.[/QUOTE]

You will get what you deserve one day you piece of shit.

vicsinad 01-26-2019 12:29 PM

[QUOTE=Amphipolis;178758]Then try not to write a book about the American Slav Congress. Also, ask yourself if anyone (including your own people) takes your above statement seriously.[/QUOTE]

What are you trying to say? That ethnic Macedonians called themselves ethnic Slavs? Are you trying to say we're not ethnic Macedonians or that we were not ethnic Macedonians back then?

Idiot. Where in the book do I say that Macedonians simply viewed themselves as "Slavs from Macedonia"? No where. Don't conflate the meaning of the word Slav(ic) in relation to all the people who speak a Slavic language with they way you're using it -- as an ethnic identifier for people of Macedonia who don't speak Greek. You're either purposely being disingenuous or are a naive Greek-speaking Albo-Turk-Slav-Vlach. Either way, remove yourself from this forum.

vicsinad 01-26-2019 12:54 PM

Using the term "Slav" to define the Macedonians, whether by outsiders or Macedonians themselves, was really a phenomenon of the 1920s and 1930s. That's when Russia was on the rise, and was using the term Slav to attract Slavic-speaking peoples to its domain. It also coincided with the strengthening of the Yugoslav idea in Croatia and Serbia. This is when you start seeing the "Macedonian Slav" terminology enter the conversation, and it gained in prominence as Yugoslavs and Macedonians tried to get Russians and other Slavic-speaking peoples onto their side in the battle against Greek terrorists and occupiers in Aegean Macedonia.

Before the 1920s, the term Macedonian Slav was practically insignificant. Some scholars and others used it when making appeals to other Slavic-speaking people. Most who did use the term used it in regards to Slavic-speaking. However, if you look at newspapers and books written before the 1930s, especially those by Westerners, they rarely refer to "Macedonian Slavs" or "Slavs of Macedonia." It was usually just Macedonian. Sure, they (and we) acknowledged that our language is part of the Slavic family. But when hybrid Slavo-Albanian-Turkish-Vlachs like yourself use the term, it's specifically designed to belittle and de-legitimize the ethnic Macedonian identity.

So get out.

Risto the Great 01-26-2019 03:49 PM

[QUOTE=Amphipolis;178755]
Part of the Greek propaganda may seem funny now as it would be summarized in phrases like “You can’t be Bulgarians. You’re glorious Macedonians, descendants of Alexander the Great”. Even some of the most bizarre sides of modern “antiquization” propaganda can be found done by… Greek propagandists of late 1800s, early 1900s (we have relevant threads, e.g. tracing Homeric remnants in Slavic dialects).[/QUOTE]
I much prefer the English, French and German propaganda that said that ragtag collection of Albanians, Turks, Gypsies and Vlachs were the true flag bearers and descendants of the great Hellenes. So laughable given they had to learn the language of the ancients first. And now they use ancient names as though they have been in the family for millenniums.

No need to look at Metxas's memoirs, here is a current Greek politician's memoir:[QUOTE]During the heated debate on the ratification of the deal to rename Macedonia, Nikos Filis from the Greek ruling SYRIZA party said that when Greece first captured this region in 1912, it was majority ethnic Macedonian and was ethnically cleansed throughout the decades to make it Greek. Filis, who is known for his outspoken views and for poking holes in the Greek nation building myth, was responding to nationalist protesters in front of the Parliament building who were chanting “Macedonia is one and it is Greek”.

Macedonia is not one and Greek. There are several Macedonias. The other Macedonia is defined with the Bucharest treaty which bears our, Greek signature. When we hear the chant “Macedonia is one and it is Greek” it is seen as irredentism, as disrespect for the international treaties by our country. Maybe it doesn’t sound too good but it is the truth. Greek Macedonia is Greek, and let me clarify, it was MADE Greek, because until 1912/1913 and 1921/1922, when the refugees came, there was no Greek majority in Macedonia – only in some regions in the south. So it was made Greek by a population exchange and through all the difficult events we and the other peoples from the region went through. So who are we kidding when we say “Macedonia is one and it is Greek?” Only ourselves, Filis said.

Greece captured about a half of the region of Macedonia in 1912, when fighting the Ottomans and kept it through the Second Balkan War in 1913, and many Macedonians were expelled in the process and afterwards. After its defeat to Turkey in 1921, hundreds of thousands of Greek refugees were settled in this part of Macedonia, dramatically changing its ethnic make-up, along with decades of bans on the use of the Macedonian language for the remaining Macedonians.
[/QUOTE]
If the former Turk nationals weren't there, they would still be begging Macedonians to pretend to be Greeks. But now the former Turkish nationals are the "Macedonians" .... makes me want to choke on my baklava and Turkish coffee.

Funny how this slut calls herself Amphipolis now. An Athenian settlement in Macedonia. Just like the former Turks in Macedonia nowadays. I bet the citizens of Amphipolis didn't call themselves Macedonian until long after Philip handed them their arses.

But as we know with modern Greeks, "if you can't beat them, be them."

Solun 01-26-2019 06:47 PM

[QUOTE=vicsinad;178763]Using the term "Slav" to define the Macedonians, whether by outsiders or Macedonians themselves, was really a phenomenon of the 1920s and 1930s. That's when Russia was on the rise, and was using the term Slav to attract Slavic-speaking peoples to its domain. It also coincided with the strengthening of the Yugoslav idea in Croatia and Serbia. This is when you start seeing the "Macedonian Slav" terminology enter the conversation, and it gained in prominence as Yugoslavs and Macedonians tried to get Russians and other Slavic-speaking peoples onto their side in the battle against Greek terrorists and occupiers in Aegean Macedonia.

Before the 1920s, the term Macedonian Slav was practically insignificant. Some scholars and others used it when making appeals to other Slavic-speaking people. Most who did use the term used it in regards to Slavic-speaking. However, if you look at newspapers and books written before the 1930s, especially those by Westerners, they rarely refer to "Macedonian Slavs" or "Slavs of Macedonia." It was usually just Macedonian. Sure, they (and we) acknowledged that our language is part of the Slavic family. But when hybrid Slavo-Albanian-Turkish-Vlachs like yourself use the term, it's specifically designed to belittle and de-legitimize the ethnic Macedonian identity.

So get out.[/QUOTE]

I categorise use of the term ethnic Slavs as no different to the ethnic purity direct descendant of ancient Hellene myth, all a part of the 'Greek national myth'

Karposh 01-26-2019 08:17 PM

Linguistically, Macedonian belongs in the family of Slavic languages but, genetically, the slavic element is almost insignificant. If the iGENEA genetic studies that were undertaken of the various Balkan peoples about a decade ago are anything to go by, and indeed, to be believed, the DNA analysis for Macedonians in the republic include 30% of Ancient Macedonian blood and only 15% of slavic blood. The same study reveals Greece and Albania to have an even higher percentage of the Slavic haplogroup R1a than the "Slavs" of Macedonia.

So what does this mean? Is iGENEA some pseudo-scientific organisation with an agenda or is this simply a non-biased analysis by an organisation that specialises in the genetic origins of Europeans. I tend to lean towards the latter explanation. Perhaps aware of the inevitable and impending controversy surrounding their findings, iGENEA was quick to point out that:

[QUOTE]"...we can now genetically define numerous historical indigenous peoples. By indigenous peoples, we refer here to people groups from Antiquity who are defined not only by their own language, culture and history but also by their own DNA-profile. What is important is not the common linguistic ancestry or the historical-anthropological categorization, but the individual genetic characteristics of a people." [/QUOTE]

And, in case someone was wondering how they managed to to get their hands on Ancient Macedonian DNA for their comparisons, I read up recently that they can extract the DNA from the remaining marrow in skeletal bones found in ancient tombs.

But, regardless, reducing a people to a racist qualifier instead of referring to them by their chosen name is insulting and you are smart enough to know that Amphipolis. I'm quite certain that you would never refer to the Serbs as the Slavs of Serbia and, according to the same iGENEA study, they have double the percentage of the Slavic haplogroup R1a identifier, i.e. 30%. I'm also quite certain you have zero connection with Macedonia even though you live in Solun. In fact, your deep-rooted delusions do not allow you to understand and accept that you do not even have any connection with Greece. Your Turkish grandfather had to learn the Greek language when he arrived as a "Greek" refugee in Solun back in 1922.

Similarly, the example of the Germanic peoples of Europe should serve as an interesting lesson for you. If I'm not mistaken, they are more genetically linked than the millions of Slavic speaking peoples of Europe could ever be. And yet, no one would ever refer to the Dutch, Danes or Swedes as the Germans of Holland, Denmark or Sweden.

So pull your head, idiot.

Phoenix 01-26-2019 08:54 PM

[QUOTE=Risto the Great;178767]...Funny how this slut calls herself Amphipolis now...[/QUOTE]

C'mon mate, tone it down a notch or two, whether it's Amphipolis today or Lola tomorrow...just because he likes wearing womens underwear and lipstick doesn't necessarily make him a slut.
People having undergone gender reassignment have many psychological frailties that they have to overcome and manage appropriately for the rest of their lives...to insinuate he has an insatiable penchant for having every hole filled, often at the same time, may be just a tad insensitive...

Gocka 01-26-2019 09:13 PM

[QUOTE=Phoenix;178776]C'mon mate, tone it down a notch or two, whether it's Amphipolis today or Lola tomorrow...just because he likes wearing womens underwear and lipstick doesn't necessarily make him a slut.
People having undergone gender reassignment have many psychological frailties that they have to overcome and manage appropriately for the rest of their lives...to insinuate he has an insatiable penchant for having every hole filled, often at the same time, may be just a tad insensitive...[/QUOTE]

His "ancestors" were the original homosexuals.

Phoenix 01-26-2019 11:39 PM

[QUOTE=Gocka;178777]His "ancestors" were the original homosexuals.[/QUOTE]

The Turks, the original homosexuals...surely not?

Gocka 01-27-2019 12:15 AM

[QUOTE=Phoenix;178781]The Turks, the original homosexuals...surely not?[/QUOTE]

Lol but of course not, the Turks are his ancestors not his "ancestors". Big difference. :biggrin:

Soldier of Macedon 01-27-2019 09:17 AM

[QUOTE=Amphipolis;178755]Greeks and Bulgarians (and Serbs) contested to attract the Slavs of Macedonia and persuade them they are actually Greeks, Bulgarians or Serbs.[/QUOTE]
By now, you would obviously know that making such a statement, in that manner, would be considered insulting, especially coming from a person who shares the same sentiment as many of the other implanted maggots from Asia Minor that have been infesting Macedonia for the previous century. I have been incredibly lenient with you over the years by allowing you to return several times after being banned, yet here we are again. Same tired act. You just couldn’t resist being an idiot. Perhaps you’re so indoctrinated that you’re incapable of comprehending how offensive such a term is towards Macedonians, especially when devoid of proper context and relevance. Either way, I don’t really care anymore. You’re out for the rest of the year. Spend the time to reflect on what led you to become such a miserable racist.


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