Macedonia and NATO

[makedonche]

This is true and has been discussed in detail over the past two years. In the ICJ case, Macedonia is asking the court to ENFORCE the Interim Accord. The fact that Macedonia went to an international court to enforce its “rights” under this Accord only demonstrates that they accept it as a valid and legitimate agreement. I think the damage that this has caused goes way over the heads of the so-called “experts” that advice our vassal politicians and their lapdogs in Macedonia and the diaspora.

This idea that Macedonia has some sort of "grand strategy" (as proposed by OziMak and Buktop) is ludicrous. And if this is their "grand strategy", the Macedonian Government has miscalculated on such a huge scale, it could well be the most idiotic political stratagem in history.

Vangelovski
Exactly what I feared mate!

[Vangelovski]

OM
It just dawned on me from reading your post that starting legal action in ICJ entangles ROM further into the name negotiations and provides an excuse not to end the talks! Your thoughts?

This is true and has been discussed in detail over the past two years. In the ICJ case, Macedonia is asking the court to ENFORCE the Interim Accord. The fact that Macedonia went to an international court to enforce its “rights” under this Accord only demonstrates that they accept it as a valid and legitimate agreement. I think the damage that this has caused goes way over the heads of the so-called “experts” that advise our vassal politicians and their lapdogs in Macedonia and the diaspora.

This idea that Macedonia has some sort of "grand strategy" (as proposed by OziMak and Buktop) is ludicrous. And if this is their "grand strategy", the Macedonian Government has miscalculated on such a huge scale, it could well be the most idiotic political stratagem in history.

[makedonche]

OM
It just dawned on me from reading your post that starting legal action in ICJ entangles ROM further into the name negotiations and provides an excuse not to end the talks! Your thoughts?

[fyrOM]

Guys…me thinks thou protests too much.

Pelister…The admission to NATO by this shameful acronym also sends the signal to the rest of the world that the Macedonians find it at some level acceptable.

How does this make RoM any more or less accepting of the acronym FYROM than when you have all noted and commented in past threads about the government wearing…sometimes literally as a name tag on their suit eg Grujo visiting NY Stock Exchange…the acronym in various forums.

Was not part of the IA for Greece not to prevent RoM entering international bodies where Greece is a member under the acronym name.

Isn’t this exactly what the ICJ case all about…you bad Greeks for not letting us in as FYROM.

As to the benefits or otherwise of such actions have you not yourselves come to some conclusions and then also found articles to post with writers having similar conclusions ie it’s a temporary get in card and not a give up position.

DedoAleko...It was all over the news these days, that the government wants R.Macedonia to join nato and eu as FormerYugoslavRepublicOfMacedonia, but both eu and nato (united states) said NO.
Analyzing our governments latest statements (or maybe it’s just my imagination) it starts to smell like they plan to end the name talks.
But, as I mentioned it’s just my opinion.
Macedonians, don’t forget: UNITED-WE CAN!

Yes DedoAleko is absolutely right in his post. Yes it was old news but also yes it was recently renewed and yes RoM still wants to get in the EU and NATO under the acronym name…think about it how can you be suing someone to be allowed to do x then two feet out the court room say you don’t want to do x while you are still waiting on the courts ruling. Publicly restating it sends a clear message to the courts RoM wants a positive result . Is this now report coming to you as some kind of surprise. Its all part of the game plan and has been for a long time. Welcome to October 2010. It is one prong in a multi prong approach to getting in the EU and NATO and wining the name game…it starts to smell like they plan to end the name talks. Right said DedoAleko.

[Pelister]

The term FYROM is exacerbating the sense that our Macedonia identity is suspicious.

We've already seen an small library of books emerging where the term FYROM is being used instead of Macedonian.

The admission to NATO by this shameful acronym also sends the signal to the rest of the world that the Macedonians find it at some level acceptable.

[George S.]

Julie is right in that a lot of people are giving their lives for freedom & to call yourself what you want.It's a sad endightment on nato they should directly give admission to macedonia under it's rightful name without extra conditions.Pelister &tom both right in that because of greece having it's fingers in the pie have been able to influence other countries to recognize only us as fyrom.When infact it should be under the rightful name of macedonia.

[Pelister]

People,

Macedonia has already applied for NATO and EU membership years ago and this was done under the FYROM terminology.

This is not news, this is not a matter of 'if', this has already happened.

You right Tom.

I am certain that the people in the Macedonian government (and UMD who support our admission to these clubs as FYROM) do not have any idea what the effects of the term FYROM have on our image in the international community.

The term FYROM is doing us ENORMOUS POLITICAL DAMAGE. AN ENTIRE LIBRARY OF NEWLY PUBLISHED WORKS HAS EMERGED OVER THE LAST FIFTEEN YEARS, WHERE INSTEAD OF 'MACEDONIA' THEY USE THE TERM 'FYROM'.

I have seen hundreds and hundreds of new titles, where the term FYROM is used instead of Macedonia, and has been used to suggest we have always been a 'suspect' people' with a 'suspect' identity and a suspect history.

Our admission to the E.U and NATO club under the term FYROM, WILL erode our identity, and erode the legitimacy of our State and erode our right to exist - month by month and year by year.

[Vangelovski]

People,

Macedonia has already applied for NATO and EU membership years ago and this was done under the FYROM terminology.

This is not news, this is not a matter of 'if', this has already happened.

[Pelister]

If this is true then they are certified idiots.

What better way to put pressure on themselves and paint themselves into a corner.

What happens then? 'Everything' becomes contingent on 'finding a solution'.

I can't think of anything worse they could do right now, than this. If this is true, this is a massive blow for us.

UMD has been pushing for this all along. I think its becoming clear who the enemies of Macedonia are, and that they are step by step putting more and more pressure on themsleves to 'find a solution'. If you look at the current events, every step taken by the Macedonians is one where they are increasingly building up pressure on themselves to meet Greece demands.

[julie]

Macedonia has assisted NATO with providing resources and soldiers to both Iraq and Afghanistan, who are already there under NATO. They probably see it as an at of goodwill. NATO is basically US. The idiocy of this is, we have Macedonians who have died, and are not recognised as Macedonians when they do so , but are under that revolting acronym.

[Frank]

To the Geo-Political minds out there
I am stumped to the benefit of NATO membership just what are they

It isnt a neon Welcome sign to FI
It doesn't prove you are Politically stable
It would not stop Macedonia being forced to deal with another Albanian uprising the same way
It creates budget restrictions to Military expendture, with the NATO alliance already saying you dont need arms phurchases just stay small and shut up (The NATO Sec General said that last week)

It above all upsets the real NATO alliance, the American Bastards and that is good

[julie]

how disgusting.

[Frank]

Yes the Macedonian Government is on its knees begging for the big boys to let her be a member if their club, Instead of not having the Courage to withdraw troops from all NATO missions and demand from that Organisation to be treated as a equal not as a partner with the same obligations but no rights

Message to be sent load and clear to those American bastards

And Pigs will fly too

[Big Bad Sven]

Washington. The U.S. supports Macedonia’s NATO aspirations, Macedonian Defense Minister Zoran Konjanovski said after his meeting with the U.S. Secretary of Defense Robert Gates in Washington, Macedonian Vecer daily writes.
Minister Konjanovski added the U.S. appreciated the defense reforms Macedonia is making.
“However, the name issue remains open. Macedonia might join the Alliance with the name Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia (FYROM), because nobody can guarantee whether the dispute will be resolved in one or two years,” said Konjanovski.

http://www.focus-fen.net/index.php?id=n231902

Its bad enough that we have to sell our souls and country to join NATO and EU, two organisations that dont support us and dont respect us, and now we will b e forced to drop our heads and join these wonderful clubs with the "temporary" name of FYROM.... ycuk

[George S.]

Julie that was not meant to offend but if you check the heading it's got macedonia proposing to join etc as fyrom.I think in the hope that it's not knocked back because of the name.It is probably another vain attempt to try anything without compromising the name.Really they should just end the talks there.